2010s: What Destinations Rose and Fell?
#21
(06-05-2019, 12:06 PM)SpecialEd Wrote:
(06-05-2019, 11:05 AM)whiteknightrises Wrote: Korean nationalist horshit...blah blah...talking about the experiences of white guys there while not one..blah blah

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Also Korean guys have an awful rep here in VN. General perception (accurate imo) is you guys have a bizarre racial superiority complex towards other asians, and while acting like complete purse holding betas in korea lose the white knight (ha!) act entirely abroad and treat the women here rather poorly. I won't even touch on penis size.

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It sure is fun cumming on and in white girls:

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1v7TwoIFhY8

Not that your faggot ass would know, gotta go to SEA to get laid (if that) LMAO

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#22
Lol triggered.
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#23
I think Medellin could be added to the list. I first went there in 2012 and returned every year until 2018 and have noticed a steady increase in horny gringos every year. It wasn’t that bad in the early years, on the street I always stay on I would see maybe 2-5 gringos per day, now it’s 50 plus. With direct flights and the country being marketed as “safe”, there’s just way more foreigners, which is both good and bad. Good in the sense that it helps the local economy and the bar/restaurant scene is way better but bad because unfortunately a lot of those guys are the worst type of obvious sex tourist. It’s one thing to hit up a strip club or whore house to discreetly do your thing but when you see an obese fifty year old white guy in tube socks, shorts and New Balance sneakers come into a family restaurant with a twenty year old ghetto hooker, it makes the locals become jaded towards all of us.

Medellin is a terrible place for non-Spanish speaking beginners, at best you’ll have a fun time partying and sight seeing and likely not get laid. At worst, you’ll get drugged and robbed, maybe stabbed (it’s happened to RVF members) or possibly die.
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#24
The stuff about Iceland is right on the money. If there's any place that's declined from a game standpoint, it's there.
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#25
Did Poland really decline that much? RVF seems to claim the place is over.

I'm just wondering if it's more a case of people getting older instead of the place changing that much.
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#26
(06-10-2019, 09:13 AM)Shifty Wrote: Did Poland really decline that much? RVF seems to claim the place is over.

I'm just wondering if it's more a case of people getting older instead of the place changing that much.

I first visited in the mid 2000s and did multiple cities. Visited again last year and found it better than before.

I don't doubt demographics are worse, and smart phone use with all its negatives of instagram etc has exploded, but I don't think either of those are capable of "ruining" the entire country the way some of the RVR posts claim. And they certainly haven't in my personal experience. There are still loads of attractive, friendly, women around in their 20s.

I'd have strong suspicions that a lot of guys on RVF first visited Poland when in their mid 20s around when Roosh made it popular, then went back ten years later now in their mid 30s - and found it much, much harder. But thats probably got more to do with them aging than anything else. That, and the psychological novelty factor being gone for them because its not their first time there/they're older and more jaded, would also lower their enjoyment a lot.
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#27
I think Poland became pretty xenophobic post migrant crisis. Not that it wasn't before. I'm white but obviously not Polish and got UGLY looks from polish dudes when i was there in 2013. Can't imagine what it's like now - especially for guys Rooshs complexion and darker.
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#28
(06-02-2019, 01:49 PM)kc1082 Wrote: I disagree on Cuba opening up being a good thing. If Cuba fully owns up it will become more like America and everything that may it special will start to disappear or be forgotten. I also think there will be a huge spike In prostitution due to more frustrated guys seeing it as an opportunity for easy sex which will also lead to more crime in tourist areas.

Fully agree with you.Cuba is already overflowed with tourists and attitude is already changing.La havana is a perfect example.Girls there are very mercenary these days since they have been spoiled by American tourists coming for 1 week or 2 who throw $ at them.  Angry
carpe diem
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#29
^Canadians and Europeans having been doing that for decades, it’s nothing new.
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#30
(06-10-2019, 10:34 AM)SpecialEd Wrote: I think Poland became pretty xenophobic post migrant crisis. Not that it wasn't before. I'm white but obviously not Polish and got UGLY looks from polish dudes when i was there in 2013. Can't imagine what it's like now - especially for guys Rooshs complexion and darker.

Nah. I lived in Poland (Gdansk) from mid-2015 to mid-2018. I'm SEA-American, but have been told I could pass for Indian or Mexican. Didn't stop me from having a Polish gf for almost all of that time, and getting interest from other girls, via day game. Overall, I did about as well as the local Polish day game buddies I made there. Also, nobody in Gdansk - male or female - seemed to mind me holding hands with my gf in public.

Of course, I don't dress like a migrant, and I'm also not saying I didn't have to work for what I earned.
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#31
I don't know about places that have risen. I went to Colombia and Mexico two years ago for my third visit to each country and they were still both good to me. I also speak Spanish. Maybe they've declined for your standard issue, no-Spanish gringo.  I've been to Thailand, a place I used to live, a few times in the last two years and still had a great time.  Like others have said, a lot of factors come into play here, such as age, looks, and whether or not it's your first time in that country/city.

One place that I can say that I've noticed a perceptible drop off is China.  I first visited China in 2010, when it was much poorer and less developed than it is now.  It was easy to meet locals who were eager to chat you up.  While that's still the case, China's rapid accumulation of wealth, rapidly expanding middle class, and insurgent nationalism has made it more difficult for even an above average foreigner.  I'm not saying it's difficult, because it's not, but it's more difficult than it used to be.  It's definitely more difficult than when I first moved to Shanghai in 2012.

It used to be rare that a Chinese person was well traveled. Now, it seems every English-speaking Chinese chick I meet has traveled abroad extensively and has photos in front of the Eiffel Tower, Santorini, the Sydney Opera House, etc. to prove it.  A significant number of them  have studied in the US, UK, France, Switzerland, or Australia.  That means the wow factor of meeting a handsome foreigner in her hometown has greatly diminished.  She's now suspicious about why on Earth you're in China.  

Even if you're making good money in China, a lot of these Chinese girls have tons more.  You're money or job is not at all impressive to that group of girls. Since many are only children, their parents spoil them rotten.  They've also got lots of local males vying for their attention who have tons more money than you because their parents spoil them as well.  I've met girls who weren't intelligent, weren't interesting, weren't amazingly pretty, and didn't even have a job or study, who have had astonishingly high opinions of themselves (similar deal in the West, it seems).  I don't blame them, really. They've been pampered by their parents and grandparents their entire lives.  They also have their pick of local men with the same characteristics.  Some of these dudes fawn over them.  

Modern mainland society is crassly materialistic, yet traditional in the sense that dating a foreigner is something 99.9% of women never think about.  Part of this is China's size, and part of it is the large increase in nationalist rhetoric over the last few years.  Why look outside of Chinese culture when "China is number 1?"  Why be seen with a handsome middle class foreigner when a local guy (albeit usually skinny fat or outright fat) with a BMW who comes from a well-off family is lavishing you with expensive gifts and trips to the Maldives? Moreover, by being with the local guy, no one is going whisper behind your back or say rude things to you as you walk down the street.  This is not to hate on local guys. Good for them. I think it's indicative of a healthy society.  There are also lots more local middle-class guys who are hitting the gym and making an effort to dress well and improve their hygiene. 

To close, this is not to say that there aren't plenty of Chinese girls who are willing to date a foreigner. There are. It's just that they have become much more selective over the last decade. If you're going to go to China, you need to continue to work to increase your value. China is more difficult than SE Asia.
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#32
So this is maybe different from what a lot of people are saying, but I haven't actually felt a negative change in terms of women in any of the countries i've been visiting over the years. This could be because I would say I have steadily improved my game/life over the years. It actually seems like whenever I go to a country the second or third or fourth time, I do even better. This is taking into account the work I put in, because the first time I visit a country I may get more girl crazy and want to spend more time chasing girls.

I have, however, felt that my exotic value has gone down in nearly all of them. I don't get the wow looks quite like i used to, but in terms of girls, it's not necessarily a bad thing. When lots of foreigners come to a country and date the women, they usually take care of them(too much), and the girls have a great experience with the guy even when it doesn't work out. She tells all her friends how great it is dating a foreigner and the next thing you know girls who would be too afraid to date a foreigner are actively seeking them out. So, for sex, I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

It still is the top 10% rule though. If you can get into that top 10% your life will be so good. It's a lot easier in those countries. But if you don't work on yourself and even with your exotic value and being from the west you aren't in the top 10%, I can see how things could become harder. But like I said, I have been improving myself steadily for the past 8 years. And I'm approaching my prime (I'm 31). I know that eventually it's going to start getting harder... which is why I'm focusing on building a sweet bank roll Wink
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#33
(06-11-2019, 02:31 AM)jdreise Wrote: One place that I can say that I've noticed a perceptible drop off is China.  I first visited China in 2010, when it was much poorer and less developed than it is now.  It was easy to meet locals who were eager to chat you up.  While that's still the case, China's rapid accumulation of wealth, rapidly expanding middle class, and insurgent nationalism has made it more difficult for even an above average foreigner.  I'm not saying it's difficult, because it's not, but it's more difficult than it used to be.  It's definitely more difficult than when I first moved to Shanghai in 2012.

It used to be rare that a Chinese person was well traveled. Now, it seems every English-speaking Chinese chick I meet has traveled abroad extensively and has photos in front of the Eiffel Tower, Santorini, the Sydney Opera House, etc. to prove it.  A significant number of them  have studied in the US, UK, France, Switzerland, or Australia.  That means the wow factor of meeting a handsome foreigner in her hometown has greatly diminished.  She's now suspicious about why on Earth you're in China.  

Even if you're making good money in China, a lot of these Chinese girls have tons more.  You're money or job is not at all impressive to that group of girls. Since many are only children, their parents spoil them rotten.  They've also got lots of local males vying for their attention who have tons more money than you because their parents spoil them as well.  I've met girls who weren't intelligent, weren't interesting, weren't amazingly pretty, and didn't even have a job or study, who have had astonishingly high opinions of themselves (similar deal in the West, it seems).  I don't blame them, really. They've been pampered by their parents and grandparents their entire lives.  They also have their pick of local men with the same characteristics.  Some of these dudes fawn over them.  

Modern mainland society is crassly materialistic, yet traditional in the sense that dating a foreigner is something 99.9% of women never think about.  Part of this is China's size, and part of it is the large increase in nationalist rhetoric over the last few years.  Why look outside of Chinese culture when "China is number 1?"  Why be seen with a handsome middle class foreigner when a local guy (albeit usually skinny fat or outright fat) with a BMW who comes from a well-off family is lavishing you with expensive gifts and trips to the Maldives? Moreover, by being with the local guy, no one is going whisper behind your back or say rude things to you as you walk down the street.  This is not to hate on local guys. Good for them. I think it's indicative of a healthy society.  There are also lots more local middle-class guys who are hitting the gym and making an effort to dress well and improve their hygiene. 

To close, this is not to say that there aren't plenty of Chinese girls who are willing to date a foreigner. There are. It's just that they have become much more selective over the last decade. If you're going to go to China, you need to continue to work to increase your value. China is more difficult than SE Asia.

Very accurate on China. The changes in Chinese society have come at warp speed, similar to how others in different parts of this forum have spoken about Japan and Korea changing fast since the 90s. The rise in disposable incomes causes local men to up their game socially and physically, and they have become greater competition for foreigners here (good for them honestly). Japan and Korea are seen as tougher destinations for foreign guys now, but given that China is much larger than the other two, there are still large pockets of the country that aren't as bad for foreigners. But in Shanghai, I certainly don't see too many busted foreign dudes with hot Chinese chicks anymore.

On another note about China, at least in tier one cities (Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, maybe Guangzhou), I've met less and less foreigners there who work in high-paying corporate jobs, as these have been replaced by well-educated locals who speak fluent English, but don't demand high salaries/benefits as much. While the number of foreigners residing in these cities might not change, the makeup of them certainly has, as I see and meet more and more students on short-term stays, and less long-term foreigners working stable jobs. Top-tier women here need more than just you being a foreigner to hop into bed with you, and less and less of the foreign guys here fit the bill of a foreigner that a 9 or 10 Chinese woman would sleep with. In that sense, China has become harder for foreigners, similar to the way Korea and Japan have. If you have your shit together money-wise, are in shape, and are not mildly autistic however, you can still absolutely murder it here. But that's a bar that's too high to clear for a lot of guys.

In summary, greater competition from local dudes, higher standards from women, and the change in demographics among the foreigners in China has caused it to be more difficult for foreign dudes here compared to 10 years ago.
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#34
Stock Rise: None

Stock Fell:

-Kiev: I do think it's still doable but I know many men who grew dissatisfied and left. Visa free travel is definitely a bad thing because it attracts so many sex tourists. I'm not a hypocrite, I'm one too so can't complain but when there are too many of them that compete on who spend the more money, things don't turn out good.
If you have some money to spend and are decent looking you can stil have some success with hot girls, but talking with other guys it's definitely not what it used to be.

Poland: Went there when it was still good and enjoyed my time there. It was full of sluts in clubs. It used to be the place where I liked the nightlife the most. Fast forward to now, I got news it sucks. Girls were never the hottest, but they made up for it by being easy to pick up. Apparently it's not like that anymore.

Spain: Used to go to Spain when I was in my late teens/early 20's and I loved it. Party girls, erasmus girls, lots of tourists. Barcelona was a goldmine both for hostel game and for club game. Fast forward 12 years later and it's like another city. Part of it is because I got older, but I'm sure it's also way harder than what I used to remember.

Stock even:

- Russia: Thanks God for the Visa. There aren't as many sex tourists as in Ukraine. If you stay out of Moscow prices are also very cheap. Girls are beautiful and feminine but russian is needed for scoring with a more wholesome girl. I personally think it's the place where to look for a nice girlfriend. If you want just a bang, go to Ukraine as you'll have much less hassles.
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#35
(06-05-2019, 04:05 AM)William Redskin Wrote: Very happy about Saigon opening up and it still keeps the mongers out. Great place for online guys as it has extremely easy visas for long term stay and it doesn't seem to be changing any time soon. The only thing to be weary of is the petty crime issue. Phone theft and other theft happens a lot in Saigon and everyone seems to have a story or experience. Also, the taxis are big time scammers even if it seems like you live there and know your stuff. But maybe the petty crime is a blessing in disguise as it keeps a lot of guys out with its wild west image, compared to Thailand or other spots around SEA.

Can you elaborate about the easiness of long term visa in Vietnam?
How long can you actually stay as a tourist without leaving the country and how much does it cost?
thnks
carpe diem
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#36
(06-13-2019, 12:19 PM)prisonbreak Wrote:
(06-05-2019, 04:05 AM)William Redskin Wrote: Very happy about Saigon opening up and it still keeps the mongers out. Great place for online guys as it has extremely easy visas for long term stay and it doesn't seem to be changing any time soon. The only thing to be weary of is the petty crime issue. Phone theft and other theft happens a lot in Saigon and everyone seems to have a story or experience. Also, the taxis are big time scammers even if it seems like you live there and know your stuff. But maybe the petty crime is a blessing in disguise as it keeps a lot of guys out with its wild west image, compared to Thailand or other spots around SEA.

Can you elaborate about the easiness of long term visa in Vietnam?
How long can you actually stay as a tourist without leaving the country and how much does it cost?
thnks

 If you are American, you can get a 1 year business visa without doing visa runs and renew in country or retstart when you are done.

If you are a regular tourist / digital nomad type, it's usually 3 or 6 month or 1 year tourist visas (leave every 3 mos). Visa runs are virtually unlimited but not encouraged. You're gonna get asked eventually.

For 2-5 year options and beyond (Temp Residency Card), you can apply through a work permit, investor, or without documents which will cost you more. 

Let me know if you have anymore questions.
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#37
(06-05-2019, 10:28 AM)shemp Wrote:
Quote:Menard wrote:
I haven't traveled much in my life, and I haven't visited most of the places mentioned in here, so please bear with this naive question I have.

When a place like Poland becomes popular, who exactly is flooding the country and inflating the value for local pussy? I mean, the user base for all game forums combined isn't that big. Plus I often feel like PUA is less of a thing now than it was before. You see less of it on mainstream media. Are the guys who increase competition just normal tourists that try and game the girls (game not being the main reason they're visiting)? Or is there a whole universe of players I'm not aware of, outside forums like STW and RVF?
Very good question. First thing I suggest every guy do, is play around with  https://www.populationpyramid.net website. With regards to Poland as of 2019, note that there is a surplus of men versus women in both 20-24 and 25-29 groups. Furthermore, there are way more men in the 25-29 group versus women in the 20-25 group, and of men in the 30-34 group than women in the 25-29 group. So if women mostly date same age men, situation is already difficult, but if they date slightly older men, situation is really bad. And if they also are open to men more than 5 years older, it's a dating apocalypse from men's point of view, at least if the target is younger women. If the target is women 35 and up, again assuming women mostly go for same age or slightly older men, situation is much better from men's point of view.

So to answer your question. Based on population pyramids, I think the situation has gradually become bad for men in all developed countries over the past 10 years, and it has nothing to do with RSD autists spam approaching with cheezy openers, etc. There just aren't enough foreigners chasing women in Poland to really distort the dating market. If there was a shortage of local men, then Polish women would still be very open to foreigners. But since in fact there is a big surplus of local men, women can afford to be bitchy and gossip about being harassed by "hordes of sex tourists". Indeed, given that they have no need for foreigners at this point, young women would gossip like that even if there was exactly 1 foreigner in the whole of Poland right now who was chasing young local women, simply because this sort of gossip is so flattering to these women's egos.

RSD, RVF, STW, and other PUA sites are indeed of negligible impact on the world. It's only because guys in these forums are in an echo chamber that they think otherwise. I made the same point in the ISG Ukraine subforum, about mongers living in their bubble and thinking every Ukrainian girl is a semi-pro at minimum, whereas in fact it's just a small number who are open to that and most Ukrainian women would be appalled at being treated like an escort (money on the table, ready for counting, when she visits, etc). Guys who hang out at whore bars complain of Turks and Arabs everywhere in Kyiv, whereas I never see them other than a small number of well-integrated Russian fluent higher class Turks at my social activity.

I've never been to Poland, but Ukraine has a similar population pyramid, and situation is indeed difficult for young Ukrainian men. As elsewhere in developed world, 80/20 rule applies. That is, young Ukrainian guys in top 20% (or whatever %) are swimming in pussy and bottom 80% are fighting over scraps. Top 20% means: good income (software developer, etc); average or better size and height (genetic looks); above average fitness, grooming and clothing (controllable looks); average or better social skills. I would imagine same thing in Poland. As a foreigner who can't be trusted to offer marriage, you are automatically in bottom 80%, regardless of looks, money, game.

Now I noted above that most Ukrainian women are not semi-pros, contrary to rumors. However, same as in rest of developed world, sugar baby phenomenon, which is another name for semi-pros, has been growing in significance of late, due to 2009 financial crisis, rise of social media, continued loosening of morals and consequent decrease in stigma against "soft" prostitution under its various names (semi-pro, sugar baby, sponsorette, travel girl, rental girlfriend, prepago, mistress, etc). So this is another factor in making regular dating of young women more difficult, but again, it's locals who dominate soft prostitution, not foreigners.

Thanks for pointing me to the population pyramid site.  Population pyramids are very important, but they are not the whole picture.  Attitude toward sex is the more important.   Based on the population pyramids alone, Iraq, Iran, and India should be great places to get laid, but they are not.  Countries that have many young people are going to be better easier to find young booty.  When you look at the population pyramids of the USA and UK, they look like a penis, which is what they are, a bunch or horny dudes.  Philippines, Indonesia, and Cambodia have more young people.  Thailand has less and Ukraine looks not very good, but both have liberal sexual attitudes. 

Now to the question can a bunch of PUA guys approaching in the center of a European city affect the ease of picking up chicks.   Also throw in guys that come for bachelor parties to these cities.  I believe the answer is yes.   I've seen this all over the world.  It doesn't take that many.  Here is an example of this.  If there is a bar that was good for meeting women, now add a bunch of loser over zealous PUAs there.  Girls are going to get tired of being hit on by jerks all night, so they'll be gun shy to talk to a good guy, or maybe even look for a new bar.  Same with on the street.  If many guys come up to them that are jerks, they'll avoid talking to strangers.  I've seen places deteriorate very quickly.  When their economy improved, I saw Kiev fall by 50% in one year on how easy it was to pick up  girls. I've seen the Philippines totally change, because there are so many Koreans coming there, throwing money at all the good looking girls.  They can be very choosy on who they spend their time with.  A good looking Filipina who knows how to work the dating sites can have 3 sponsors who she may have to meet only one week a year, but receive money from them all year long by just chatting and saying "honey I love you."   I'm sure it's the same for good looking Ukrainian girls.  They probably have several sponsors sending them money.  Say you are a 50 year old man in the UK making over 100K.  You probably can't get a date with anyone good in UK, so you get a girlfriend in Ukraine or Philippines.  You video chat with her every other night.  She's super hot.  Are you going to miss L 200 to have a "girlfriend" and you may get to bang her when you go there.  If she's smart she'll bang you for a week and you'll send her L 500 for the chance to do her next year.

Why do some guys say it's easy and there are many girls in a certain counties, when other guys say it is hard to get girls.  The main reason is the the quality of girls they are talking about.  Most of these guys that are banging high numbers of girls are not banging the 8s or high 7s.  These girls don't have to bang any guys but the best looking wealthiest guys  that will make their lives better.  Who do you think beautiful Ukrainian girls bang?   Well, not foreigners.  They have rich Ukrainian boyfriends.  In any country in the world the best looking girls can find rich local men.
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