Paying For Girls (Rant + Questions)
#1
I know this topic has been done to death, but I'm kinda angry and need some answers. Bit long but stick with me!

In Bangkok right now, been here for 2 months. Love it here.

I've been seeing 5 or so girls on and off for casual sex, now there's one girl I've seen more than the rest. She's cute (not super attractive, but cute), big DD natural breasts (for an Asian this is rare and they're amazing). really good in bed, great BJ skills, makes me laugh and we have fun together. Seen her about 6 or 7 times now and we've banged at least twice every time I've seen her.

So onto the paying part... I have no problem paying for women. I think it's masculine and if I'm doing what I want to do with her, then I should pay the bill.

But... because I'm in my early 30's and have seen the huge rise of feminism in the West over the past 10 years, a thought now always crosses my mind when I pay. That thought is "Mmm, am I being a pussy for paying? She has a job, why shouldn't we split or she pays for me sometimes if I see her more than once?".

So back to this girl.. every time we've been out I've paid for 99% of everything. She's paid a for a couple of taxis (super cheap) and bought me some chocolate.

Now we're not going to "cheap" places in BKK. I'm going to rooftop bars, cinema, restaurants and although it's not as expensive as my home town in the UK, it's still expensive by Thai standards. I estimate I've spent maybe £300/$395-ish on going out with her so far and she's spent £10/$15 on me max.

Let me get to the final point...

I'm sitting with her in the coffee shop, we're laughing and flirting. I say to her "I can always tell when you're lying to me" in a playful way of course, but I can, she makes a face where it's easy to tell. Then this convo ensued...

Her: Haha, no you can't
Me: I can... tell me one lie and something that's true and I'll guess which is the lie
Her: OK! (giggling)
Her: (....thinks for a moment...) "Mmm, ok.. I spend a A LOT of money on guys"
Me: (confused) Huh? What do you mean you spend a lot of money on guys?"
Her: Like when I go out to bars or whatever, I pay for them or we split the bill"
Me: (what the fuck? I feel myself getting angry)
Me: "Well you haven't spent a penny on me so far and we've met several times... why not?"
Her: "Huh? What you mean? You're older though... I mean younger guys my age" (she's 20)
Me: "Give me an example of the last time you spent money on a guy"
Her: (thinks for a second) "Mmm... a few weeks ago, I met a really handsome guy, he was 20. He took me to an expensive bar... I told him not to, but he said let's do it. When the bill came he asked to split it and I was like what the fuuuuuuck?".
Me: "Ok and you paid half?"
Her: "Yeah!"
Me: "Why did you pay?"
Her: "Because I liked him, he was super handsome... also I wanted to get something out of it now I paid"
Me: "So you fucked him that night?"
Her: "Yeah" (said in a shy quiet way)
Me: (raging inside, I go quiet)
Her: (2 minutes later) "What's wrong?"
Me: (I snap but in a calm and controlled way) "I feel like you're using me to get free food and shit, are you using me?"
Her: "What? Nooooo, of course not... please. Don't say that, it's not nice" (starts crying) "Why you judge me, I hate being judged!"

So that was the convo. Now I know I did some needy shit here by asking about other guys, going quiet like a girl and when she started crying. Of course I changed the subject and pandered to her. It was kinda embarrassing, people were looking.

But am I right in saying she's using me? She said she loves my dick, but I mean... we're technically fuck buddies now, so shouldn't she be paying for shit too?

What I took from the convo was this...

1. She's a typical girl that cries when she knows she's wrong and can't defend herself with logic or truth

2. I'm an idiot for paying for EVERYTHING and should have set the rule in place early on (I'm happy to pay for 80%, but please pay for something right?? I mean not even a fucking Starbucks!?)

3. So it's ok to pay AND HAVE SEX with random handsome guys but if I ask her to split the bill in the future, she's not going to see me anymore? I'm not David Beckham, but I'm certainly not The Elephant Man either!

4. She considers me an "older man" so I assume the daddy provider roll or something?

This shit pissed me off and I've been fuming for days actually, because I started to like her and now I'm thinking of being a prick to her just for the sake of it.

My plan was to ignore her, wait until she texts me and see if she hints on meeting or asks to meet. I'm usually the one initiating, so this might not even happen. Then say something like this "Cool, let's go to Skybar, meet me at 8pm outside the BTS". And a followup text with... "Oh and you're paying this time...".

Then see what she says "If she says "nooooo", ignores it or something similar to that, I'll just say "Ok never mind, lets not meet".

And it's actually not a bluff, I'm serious. I hate the idea of women using me for money, I'm not even rich otherwise I wouldn't mind so much I guess.

Sooooo, is this a good idea? Am I being a pussy and overreacting? Need some help fellas! Thank you in advance.
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#2
Dude either be cool with paying or don't be. Youre gonna turn into one of those miserable middle aged sexpats if you're  not careful. 

Outside the West, that's the norm. So you're not a sucker. 

About half my dates here in VN the girl offers to chip in or pay the whole thing. These are tinder girls though so they're more exposed to Western dating norms.
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#3
She is a Tinder girl though.

I get your point, appreciate it.
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#4
You already know which mistake you made.
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#5
Well I read the whole conversation, and I will give you my perspective. It seems to me, as an older guy, she is putting you in a different class, as a higher class of man. That you have your shit together, and are more able to pay. Like SpecialEd said, its more normal in Asian countries for the man to pay. Its a more traditional role.

When she was describing the incident with the younger guy, when he asked her to help pay, her initial reaction was "and I was like what the fuuuuuuck?" Well as a young guy he has no money, does not have his shit together, a lower class sort of guy. So what does he have to offer? Youth and good looks of course. To her this seemed like a worthwhile exchange for her to pay, to get the lay. Sound familiar? Yeah men do this exact thing with hot young girls all the time. But yes a bit unusual to have these roles reversed.

So in a way she is giving you a compliment by putting you in the higher class as a man able to take care of the date. Be that man and just do it, you will be a step above those poor good looking guys. It does not make you a sucker. Now, if after the date she is like lets go walk around the mall, and then, will you get me those shoes? Oh this dress is so nice, buy it for me? Where is my allowance this month? Or, my mother needs an operation, can you help? And you do, then you are a sucker.
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#6
It's not fair perhaps but if you're gonna date younger women they're going to expect you to be financially situated, and cover relatively cheap meals. Especially when you're from the 1st world.

Just learn to be zen about it. If a girl offers to pay great. If she doesn't you still enjoyed her company.

Hell in Korea if some friends go out for a night on the town, the oldest one is expected to pay for everything. 

The stingy PUA routine just doesn't work out here.
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#7
If she’s a fuckbuddy, why are you meeting her for coffee and going out to bars with her?

Just have her come straight to your place. Problem solved.
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#8
Dude,

Why should she pay? She has no need to pay. I mean, if she does, great. But there will be an endless supply of dudes more than willing to pay for her. Girls just have that advantage and benefit.

The man is expected to pay if he is the one asking the girl out in a dating scenario. General concept the world over.

Now, if you were continually paying for her and she didn't have sex with you, then yea, that would be a problem. In which case you simply stop seeing her and move on to the next.

I will say, it was kind of fucked up what she was saying ie young handsome guy, fucked him, etc. That shit was just weird and out of bounds generally speaking.

You fucked up asking her though.

Get yourself together. This is normal (guys paying for girls).

Learn from this mistake and stop being needy and asking that shit.

You are using these girls for sex and a good time. So what if they in turn use you for meals and movies?

As long as everyone is satisfied its all good.
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#9
@Stretch: I never thought of it like that actually (being a higher class of man), that's a fair point. True also, she's never asked for anything. Shoe's, money for anything, etc. So you're right there also.

@SpecialEd: I agree, I'm not into the stingy PUA stuff either. Hate it and I can't remember the last time I asked a girl to split the bill. But I will say she said in that convo "I spend A LOT of money on guys". Not one handsome guy... Hence why I thought, well why not me?

@Vic Vega: She does come straight to my place or I meet her for a quick drink and then take her back within an hour. But the coffee is the next morning, I kinda like chilling with her, so that's why we were in the coffee shop.

@Dash: She shouldn't pay, I agree completely. BUT, she hasn't ever offered... that's one thing to note right? But yeah, she definitely has an endless supply of dudes, good looking ones I bet too.

"I will say, it was kind of fucked up what she was saying ie young handsome guy, fucked him, etc. That shit was just weird and out of bounds generally speaking. "

Yes! That's what I'm saying, it was messed up.

"You fucked up asking her though."

Yep, I did. Big mistake and lesson learned.

Guys, I really appreciate the advice. I needed it. Feeling a bit more level headed about it now.

I think the reason I got needy in the first place was because I like her maybe a little bit more than a fuck buddy (she doesn't know and won't do) and also my ego got in the way... a younger better looking guy got laid without having to spend much money on her and I didn't. But that's life so I need to suck it up.
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#10
I also was in a similar mindset. I was essentially living with a girl on my last trip and I’d say 80-85% of shit I paid for but when it came to rent espcially I was asking for money from her because even if I have a lot more money than her it’s unfair and in my opinion sends the wrong messsge if I’m paying for EVERTHING. In fact, unless she’s my girlfriend I wouldn’t pay for as much as I did period.

I understand these girls don’t earn as much as us etc but it’s about the message it sends, I don’t want to be with a girl who just expects me to pay for everything I’m not her sugar daddy and no matter how hot the girl is I will next her if she does.

That’s more in regards to longer term situations, if your having coffee dates then unless she offered I’d pay everytime it’s just a few bucks who cares.
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#11
There’s nothing wrong with it especially if your going to take her to rooftop bars where it’s like a third of the weekly average salary for a beer.

My flat mate has a great job here in Vietnam making 3500-5000 usd a month and fucks usually 8+s. His date would involve going somewhere nice e.g. club, restaurant both. He’s late 30s. He not directly paying the girl and there’s still a chance he could get the pussy for free if he wasn’t being flashy but you have to wonder why would you not leverage a strength. I’ve always had to watch my cash and I dont think it’s cost me lays but it fucking sucks to give a shit about it.

You just need to be aware of pure gold digger behaviour though and also getting into LTRs e.g. she’s hot as fuck but personality is shit no common interests. She’s there for the lifestyle and there’s no reason to be in LTR with a chick like that.
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#12
@tezza198: I'd split the rent too, or at least ask her for enough to make it seem like she's trying. I'd always pay for coffee dates as they're cheap.

@Rick91: I guess money and women has always been a touchy subject for me. I don't like the feeling of being taken advantage of or that they like me only for money or experiences that money brings (club, bar, cinema, restaurants etc). Yeah I understand, she's definitely not a gold digger.

Some other points to make that I forgot to mention.

1. She's not your average Thai girl. She earns an ok amount of money I think, I don't know the exact amount but it's with the family business. But she's always wearing named brands (balenciaga shoes, fendi sweatshirt, Hermes bracelet) I don't wear that stuff, but I'm assuming it's not cheap. Also lives in a good neighbourhood at least 45 mins from central with her family.

2. She went on a trip to Europe recently, spent 10k! 95% of her savings she said.

3. I see money with girls these days as an investment. If she's paying for some things, then she's investing in you. Money, time and energy/sex. Money is important and what people spend it on shows you what they care about most in my opinion. I'm not asking for much, just a little gesture here and there in return.

I know you guys are saying these girls are more traditional and less fortunate in terms of money. But the modern younger girl who lives in a popular city like Bangkok knows what Western men (the mindset) is like, so I don't think they are expecting the guy to pay anymore. They want him to, but don't expect it due to past Tinder dates/experiences.
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#13
Good looking people have more benefits in life. So I wouldn't worry about the younger more handsome guys getting it for free. Got to work with the cards you are dealt.

Just don't let girls take advantage of you ie continually use you but give nothing in return.

If I was not looking for anything serious, i'd only spend money on a girl 2-4 times without her putting out.
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#14
Thanks Dash, yeah I understand that now. I'll focus on the qualities I have instead of what I don't.
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#15
I used to be ridiculously stingy with spending money on women (some old articles I counted the average money spent on dates and it was like 2$ for a 60 girl trip). But now I just kind of see the big picture. There are girl who are legit not gold diggers and you can't go to a decent restaurant and expect her to pay half. It like 5 minutes pay for you and probably 2 days work for her. I just try to see the big picture. If a girl finds it annoying to spend an hour on busses to see you, I dont mind paying for her taxi.

However, if she's a gold digger (I've gotten so I can usually notice it right away), it just because a game of getting sex without paying for anything. (It's fun to play a girl who's trying to play you).

Final case, if she is working and makes a decent salary. There is no reason she shouldn't pay half. The only exceptions being with cultures where that's just not how it is. There is no reason to fuck up a relationship with a traditional girl over paying for dinner. One day my ideal wife will be a stay at home mom. So basically, I will pay for everything anyway. Women with traditional values usually make the best moms (the kids become their lives).
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#16
(10-18-2018, 06:00 AM)20Nation Wrote: There is no reason to fuck up a relationship with a traditional girl over paying for dinner. One day my ideal wife will be a stay at home mom. So basically, I will pay for everything anyway. Women with traditional values usually make the best moms (the kids become their lives).

This is why I pay for everything up-front, from the outset. The first interactions you have with a woman can set the tone for a relationship, and if there's even a 1% chance she might be wife material, it's worth the 40 bucks or whatever to start a solid way.

I don't know if you've got any regulars you hang out with when you go back to a place, 20, but have you ever thought of wife-ing one up? In the end, do you think you'll aim for an American, or maybe a foreign girl, and if a foreign one, which countries are on your radar?
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#17
I’ve thought about it, but not sure if I will ever do it. To be honest it really depends on the type of girl more han the country. I particularly like girls who’s parents are extremely strict for some reason. They have a lot of great qualities. Obviously more conservative women are more worth siding up
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