Why do girls ghost after a great date?
#1
I have been going on a ton of dates (have been living in EE for almost a year now) and have bumped into a weird problem.

The dates are going great, the girls are laughing (last two times it happened the girls were cracking up the entire date) and then we go back to my place. I start to escalate with mixed success, i.e don't get to banging or head but make out, take off some clothes etc. Then the girl starts saying no sex on the first date etc etc. I try to escalate towards sex for a reasonable amount of time and then if it's not on I stop so as not to be overly needy/pushy. The overall vibe is good and tends to end on a high note.

I message the girls the next day or in a couple of days and they either do not reply or are not keen to meet up. Obviously you do get one-offs in game but I have had this happen two times very recently. I really can't figure it out.

Does anyone have any ideas what I could be doing to trigger this kind of response?
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#2
1) Two times isn’t a trend
2) This is EE, not LatAm/SEA. The girls will generally require a few more dates before putting out

You didn’t make it clear in your post what it is you’re seeking there in EE, but it’s worth mentioning that it just isn’t the most ideal place for quick and easy notch collecting missions. For that there’s LatAm and SEA.
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#3
You crossed the point of no return. By getting very close to sex, but not having it. She will rationalize that she wasnt that attracted with you because you couldnt break the LMR. And also by meeting you next time, shell think you expect sex and feels uncomfortable to meet.
Make sure to only escalate when you have a reasonable chance to get the lay, otherwise dont escalate at all and do a day 2.
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#4
^

That's pretty spot on. Almost every time I've failed to escalate past LMR the girl gets mixed feelings and ghosts. If not the interactions in the future are definitely tainted and the power dynamic takes a strange shift.

I'd say switch up your escalation strategy and do a date or two more before aggressively moving in for the kill.

Often times the sex is better and the transition is more seemless.

I can't speak on EE but even with more conservative American girls this typically works better and leads to less frustration and awkwardness.
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#5
(05-12-2021, 09:48 PM)bigbadpua Wrote: You crossed the point of no return. By getting very close to sex, but not having it. She will rationalize that she wasnt that attracted with you because you couldnt break the LMR. And also by meeting you next time, shell think you expect sex and feels uncomfortable to meet.
Make sure to only escalate when you have a reasonable chance to get the lay, otherwise dont escalate at all and do a day 2.

Yeah nailed it. This explains a date I had recently. Was making out but then had to bail before I got the bang. Didn't manage to get her out again, even though everything went great.
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#6
Ive burnt so many dates in my life doing exactly this. Pushing too quick and losing the girl the the mentioned point of no return. Especially in Estonia this happened very often to me, also EE. I had a girl once saying "don't fuck it all up" after an hour of bar talk and going back to mine, when her top was already off but she had heavy LMR.

Why exactly those girls don't have sex with you on the first date is something which still needs to be figured out. My guess: Can be their rule, maybe you're not 100% their type, perhaps your game is semi and she doesn't feel that attracted -> can be fixed with trust-> more dates, but they will most likely put you in the LTR box and expect more than sex. Usually when I do more than 1 date I end up hurting the other person despite never behaving in LTR way. Unfortunately for me, most 6.5+ girls seem not to be down after just one date to have sex with me in Europe.

The biggest challenge is to recognize who you can fuck on the first date and who not. Every girl will tell you that she is open minded and hates judgemental guys, often enough they will also tell you that they are not looking for something serious and just want to have fun. But while we guys tend to think that this means she wants a ONS here and now, as well as that she has had tons of cocks insider her vagina on the first night, it often doesn't. It's perhaps just what she feels in that moment and, especially in EE, it could still mean that you have to do at least 2-3 dates.

Of course, it's still possible that she did have tons of cocks inside her, when she goes partying a lot f.e. they are in another state. They get drunk and are more open to sex on the first night, but if they come out on a adate, they are often in another state of mind. For me, if a girl brags about how open minded she is but doesn't put out the first night with me, it's a huge boner killer.

In my experience, if girls talk a lot about sex and how open minded she is, it often means she isn't. They are curious, but often very shy when it comes to actual sex.

If you read the clues wrong and decide not to go for the ONS, you may lose those who are solely looking for it, though. I still haven't mastered this game, as for me it is really difficult to read the signs she gives correctly. I guess a good rule of thumb would be for EE and Balkans, to suggest once going to your place at some point during the first or second date. If she puts ressistence, perhaps better leave it and try to do it the next time. If you are already at your place, either go all in aggessively, knowing that you might lose her or respect her boundaries after some softer pushing and don't cross that point of no return.
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#7
(05-12-2021, 09:48 PM)bigbadpua Wrote: You crossed the point of no return. By getting very close to sex, but not having it. She will rationalize that she wasnt that attracted with you because you couldnt break the LMR. And also by meeting you next time, shell think you expect sex and feels uncomfortable to meet.
Make sure to only escalate when you have a reasonable chance to get the lay, otherwise dont escalate at all and do a day 2.

Damn, this is something I never realized but makes a lot of sense
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#8
(05-12-2021, 10:29 PM)lika91 Wrote: Ive burnt so many dates in my life doing exactly this. Pushing too quick and losing the girl the the mentioned point of no return. Especially in Estonia this happened very often to me, also EE. I had a girl once saying "don't fuck it all up" after an hour of bar talk and going back to mine, when her top was already off but she had heavy LMR.

Why exactly those girls don't have sex with you on the first date is something which still needs to be figured out. My guess: Can be their rule, maybe you're not 100% their type, perhaps your game is semi and she doesn't feel that attracted -> can be fixed with trust-> more dates, but they will most likely put you in the LTR box and expect more than sex. Usually when I do more than 1 date I end up hurting the other person despite never behaving in LTR way. Unfortunately for me, most 6.5+ girls seem not to be down after just one date to have sex with me in Europe.

The biggest challenge is to recognize who you can fuck on the first date and who not. Every girl will tell you that she is open minded and hates judgemental guys, often enough they will also tell you that they are not looking for something serious and just want to have fun. But while we guys tend to think that this means she wants a ONS here and now, as well as that  she has had tons of cocks insider her vagina on the first night, it often doesn't. It's perhaps just what she feels in that moment and, especially in EE, it could still mean that you have to do at least 2-3 dates.

Of course, it's still possible that she did have tons of cocks inside her, when she goes partying a lot f.e. they are in another state. They get drunk and are more open to sex on the first night, but if they come out on a adate, they are often in another state of mind. For me, if a girl brags about how open minded she is but doesn't put out the first night with me, it's a huge boner killer.

In my experience, if girls talk a lot about sex and how open minded she is, it often means she isn't. They are curious, but often very shy when it comes to actual sex.

If you read the clues wrong and decide not to go for the ONS, you may lose those who are solely looking for it, though. I still haven't mastered this game, as for me it is really difficult to read the signs she gives correctly. I guess a good rule of thumb would be for EE and Balkans, to suggest once going to your place at some point during the first or second date. If she puts ressistence, perhaps better leave it and try to do it the next time. If you are already at your place, either go all in aggessively, knowing that you might lose her or respect her boundaries after some softer pushing and don't cross that point of no return.



This is interesting but not very practical. Problem is it can be almost impossible to predict as some seemingly 'good girls' want sex immediately and vice versa. I have got the lay on the first date when all clues suggested it was not going to happen.

I tend to always try for the lay on the first date, partly just to set the right frame. Most advice suggests banging as early as possible is the best way to do it. This isn't because my goal is to always bang on the first date - just because it seems weird to do different things with different girls when as you yourself said it can be very hard to read whether she is genuinely up for sex or not.

Interesting advice but not really sure how to implement it in practice.
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#9
In the US if I can't bang I make sure I'm extra flirty and run the date like I'm going to bang but then don't invite her back and let it build up like I'm going to kiss her when I say goodbye and then don't actually kiss her. This will almost guarantee a second date and she will be wondering what she did wrong, etc and why you didn't kiss her.
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#10
(05-13-2021, 02:08 AM)Shimmy Wrote: In the US if I can't bang I make sure I'm extra flirty and run the date like I'm going to bang but then don't invite her back and let it build up like I'm going to kiss her when I say goodbye and then don't actually kiss her. This will almost guarantee a second date and she will be wondering what she did wrong, etc and why you didn't kiss her.

Yeah, I agree that it could be a good idea against all literature to not go for the kiss, if you can't bang. Unless its the 2nd or 3rd date already.

@Smoothovich True points. I guess you have to either listen to your feeling or adapt you strategy to the market. In EE, probably a 2 or 3 date model will bring better results with most girls.

I also once told myself to go for the ONS with all online girls, and to 2 or 3 dates with others. I couldn't hold the discipline when I got a ONS with the very next date which I had daygamed. But generelly, 2 date strategy worked better for me in EE.
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#11
(05-12-2021, 09:48 PM)bigbadpua Wrote: You crossed the point of no return. By getting very close to sex, but not having it. She will rationalize that she wasnt that attracted with you because you couldnt break the LMR. And also by meeting you next time, shell think you expect sex and feels uncomfortable to meet.
Make sure to only escalate when you have a reasonable chance to get the lay, otherwise dont escalate at all and do a day 2.

Good advice.

Consider it the cost of doing business.  If you swing for the fences, you are going to have some strikeouts.  But you'll also have more homeruns.

Most guys fail to escalate.  Kudos to you for treating these as same night lays.  But it means you probably don't get a second bite at the apple.
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#12
(05-13-2021, 10:44 AM)Hypno Wrote:
(05-12-2021, 09:48 PM)bigbadpua Wrote: You crossed the point of no return. By getting very close to sex, but not having it. She will rationalize that she wasnt that attracted with you because you couldnt break the LMR. And also by meeting you next time, shell think you expect sex and feels uncomfortable to meet.
Make sure to only escalate when you have a reasonable chance to get the lay, otherwise dont escalate at all and do a day 2.

Good advice.

Consider it the cost of doing business.  If you swing for the fences, you are going to have some strikeouts.  But you'll also have more homeruns.

Most guys fail to escalate.  Kudos to you for treating these as same night lays.  But it means you probably don't get a second bite at the apple.

Yes, also many girls also ghost after the first date, you might as well go all in imo
Looksmaxxx Moneymaxxx Tatianamaxxxx
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#13
(05-13-2021, 02:08 AM)Shimmy Wrote: In the US if I can't bang I make sure I'm extra flirty and run the date like I'm going to bang but then don't invite her back and let it build up like I'm going to kiss her when I say goodbye and then don't actually kiss her.  This will almost guarantee a second date and she will be wondering what she did wrong, etc and why you didn't kiss her.

I hear you on this hardcore Shimmy and have done the same.

I live in a major US city, and have come to find that unless I'm dealing with a tourist chick, the 2 date system has always resulted in better returns for me than going for it on date 1. It got to the point that a few years ago I stopped trying to have a "real night out" with a girl on date 1 at all, but instead try and schedule coffee/tea dates (only in my home city, not traveling lol). I always went into those dates with an excuse to leave after 1-1.5 hours (have to do a little more work, some athletic activity, etc.) and that amount of time was always long enough for me to display my value/personality, and more importantly, evaluate that the chick actually looked like her pics and vibed with me. Investment level was super low as well at $10 max lol. Obviously, some girls still want to get drinks, so I'd keep it 2 drinks max which is $30-40 in my city (much cheaper than a real night of drinks or something else). I've found 1-1.5hrs and completely sober is still totally fine to generate a connection, inside jokes, etc. to keep things flowing over text until date 2 no more than a week later. 

Honestly, I've found that a lot of girls in America (even foreign chicks who have been living in America for a bit) just put up resistance to date 1 lays. Yes I've had ONS here in my city, but I've also gotten to the point where I'm doing a sidewalk makeout before they go home and I've spent $70+ just to have to repeat that same date a week later to get the lay.  This only becomes more true when you're dealing with a 25+ years old girl vs 18-24. I don't think a ton of girls are even that opposed to ONS, but want to be able to tell their friends at brunch on the weekend something like "Oh I'm making him work for it" or "I'm not that easy" some shit lol. Either way, a lot don't put out on date 1. 

Additionally I've found the 2 date system to be a very fun one to run because I can typically schedule a date with one girl for coffee/tea at 7 or so, bounce by 8:30, and be meeting another girl in a different part of the city for my second date with her between 8:30-9. I'm still enjoying the dating process, but exhausting less resources because I'm doing multiple dates in one night, versus spreading out date 1 with one girl one night and date 2 with another girl another night and removing a night I could be doing other shit like hanging with my friends, working on something I enjoy, etc. 

Just some food for thought for the dudes out there that seem to have run into a lot of date 1 roadblocks regardless of how fun/great/vibing their date has been. I completely agree with the concept bigbadpua spoke of above and experienced it myself multiple times, which influenced my decision to rock the 2 date system. It's tough as a guy to think when a girl agrees she's coming back to your place that you're not gonna score, especially when you have no idea a chick has a "no date 1 sex" rule. 2 date system completely bypasses that psychological roadblock for you with minimal investment.
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#14
Girls, especially the super attractive ones, are spoiled for choice these days.  So there is no wonder why their attention gets quickly diverted to some bigger, shinier object (a hotter dude).

If you don't keep their attention in the early goings, they'll often lose interest because of so many options.

Older women (30 plus) don't seem to do this for obvious reasons.
Have you ever noticed it is your haters who obsessively read your every post, comment on them with the most emotion, and expend so much energy desperately trying to engage you?  It's because haters are your greatest, most loyal, and dedicated fans; they just have not come to terms with it yet.  Enjoy them because they are the surest sign that you're slaying it in life!  Big Grin
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#15
How do you guys cope with the fact, that exactly those girls who don't fuck with you on the first night, do it with other, hotter guys? I guess that if you are not 1-2 points above her in the SMV, its tough to score her on the first night, whilst they would easily put out with hotter guys.

I find this is kind of a mindfuck, especially when they start to sell you bullshit even during the second date. It makes me losing discipline sometimes and trying to pull more aggressively.

Also, how do you maintain this? If you date 2-3 girls per week + Day Game + some online game. Im already getting confused if Im talking to 2 girls at a time, switching conversations that have been had etc. If you go for the ONS there is no problem in that regard, but if you do 2-3 dates there will be topics that come up twice or you ask questions that you have been asked. Not easy to hold your frame once she figures it out. I dont see myself doing a list of topics that have been covered with one girl tbh
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#16
^ Remember what your parents said (or should've said) when you were a kid:

Life isn't fair.

Also, try to be more detached, almost business-like about it: "Hey, his product is just better, fair enough."

I know where you're coming from. I had a good looking wing whose results blew me out of the water. Girls during the day when we'd do 2 sets together would straight up tell him he's handsome, something I've never experienced. But that's life. Other than try harder, what can I do?

As for remembering all the leads and the interactions, just record them in whatever form is easiest and best for you, whether that's a pencil and notebook, notes on a phone, a spreadsheet, etc.
If you haven't met anyone, I'll assume you're lying (h/t to Teedub from the old forum)
My response to the old "why you losers trash the West?"
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#17
I've had luck with the 2 date system, too. Keep the first date really low key and low investment. Maybe go for a short kiss at the end, but don't escalate. Then fade into the night and DO NOT follow up with texts like "I had a great time can't wait to do it again!". Just go silent. Keep her wondering. If she reinitiates contact in any way by the next day, then set the 2nd date and be more aggressive.

This filters out girls who are on the fence and selects for true believers who are more enthusiastic about you. Of course, you'll get more 2nd dates by being more proactive with your communication after the first date, but my style is more quality over quantity, and I'd much rather spend time with girls who really want to spend time with me.
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#18
In the west girls will not text a guy they are into before he does out of principal. The best way to win is to avoid it in the first place. When you part ways say "Text me when you make it home safe."
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#19
I disagree, most of the time if a girl is into you, she will text you within 12 hours of splitting, no matter where you are dating. If not its often a sign, that she wasnt into you.
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#20
I mean the other angle here is that guys are suggested to push for the bang on date 1, which operates on the assumption you'll never see her again, in a city like NYC. Don't really know what the winning play is here.

My last few days I've gotten pretty hot girls out but have not secured the bang. Not really sure what's going on tbh.
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