The Flake Management Thread
#1
Flakes are part of the game and depending on where we travel to we get more of them. I define as a flake as a girl who you set a date with that cancels or does not show up. I'm gonna drop my system on what I do to deal with flakes and then I want to hear what you guys are doing and what techniques you may have to minimize the likelihood of flakes. I've developed this system from living in Latin America. Flaking is fucking crazy here- sometimes I still wonder why but it's just the culture. The girl don't have any more options or anything more special going on here than Europe, USA, SEA, etc. Flake rate in Latam is 40-60% depending on the city. 


What I do...

My game is pretty fast moving, slightly sexual(a winky face or two, a flirt or two, and a quick drink offer in the evening time) for screening and direct. I get their whatsapp within 5-7 back and forths online and ask them out within 2-3 back and forths on whatsapp. For daygame or nightgame numbers, I usually send 4-8 back and forths before asking them out. 

-I set up multiple dates on the same day, often double and triple booking. I set it up within walking distance to my place. Sometimes I'll even setup 5+ dates in a day. I set up dates ideally for same day or up to 2 days in advance. Sometimes I'll do more if its the only possibility or my schedule is full. 
Ie: 5pm Fernanda XYZ bar, 5pm Jenny XYZ bar, 8pm Julianna XYZ bar. 
-I confirm with each girl the morning of the date around 10 or 11am. "Hey good for 5pm?" I do NOT try to make chit chat before or say anything that gives them the opportunity to ignore my question and reply to something else(even though that would be an attention whore, don't give them any BS to work with). If they ignore it, I usually move on. If they cancel, depending on the situation sometimes I'll try one more time. If they say, yes I always tell them to "let me know when you're close" so I have an idea of their arrival and don't waste my time.
-I do NOT leave my apartment until they let me know they are on the way or have arrived. 
-If I get multiple girls that confirm for the same time, depending on my mood I choose the one that seems more DTF or the hotter one. If I get more than one confirming for the same time, I usually set a subtle sexual screen to take the more DTF girl. 

This system combined with getting used to flaking will help you to avoid most of the annoyance/time wasting all the flakes can cause. You're gonna flake on girls doing this and will get some girls pissed at you as well. It sucks but its part of the game and they do it too.

I also want to know if you guys have anything you do to actually minimize the chances of girls flaking regardless of just dealing with it by lining up more dates and having logistics sorted. I think sending voice notes, sometimes exchanging IG(usually I dont and dont need to) and having a good profile/approach is most of it but maybe there's a few more ideas.
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#2
Good post.  I’m on the same page with a lot of the stuff you mentioned. I’m in Cali, Colombia right now so flakiness of Latinas is in the ballpark of 50% as you mentioned.

I set up multiple dates on the same day…I set it up within walking distance to my place. Sometimes I'll even setup 5+ dates in a day. I set up dates ideally for same day or up to 2 days in advance.
Multiple dates is the way to go to maximize your day and meet as many women as possible.  I used to just do an afternoon coffee/lunch date and that would drag on for 2-3 hours, then an evening dinner date which could last around 2-3 hours as well.  I try and start my day around 10am for a coffee date, and keep them shorter 30min.-1 hr unless the vibe is good.

Definitely agree keeping it within walking distance of your area. Logistics is key to run any kind of game.  I am staying in El Peñon which has a lot of restaurants/bars all within walking distance and a small central park with a fountain and many benches.  So, that gives the added advantage of screening her by just talking in a public place and getting a vibe/interest level before deciding if you want to bounce to another venue. If you run around all over a city to meet girls a half hour+ away and they flake, you’ll waste a lot of time. Plus, the obvious advantage of having them meet you in your neighborhood to invite them back to your place.

…often double and triple booking[dates]
I used to do this, but don’t anymore.  I got once got burnt in Santo Domingo by double booking.  I was on a date with girl #1 and the vibe was going good.  The next girl I lined up at another bar in the same vicinity was on her way over.  I texted girl #2, “I’m sorry I can’t meet tonight, something came up”, but she busted me with girl #1 at the restaurant (we were sitting at an outdoor patio visible from the street). Girl #2 didn’t confront me in person, but I got a nasty text message afterwards and she called me “a liar and a rat”…haha.  Girl #2 had a good body, but double booking resulted in burning that bridge (btw, I got the bang on girl #1). I understand double booking creates a safety net because if one flakes, you’ve got a backup.  But, I learned from 20Nation, it’s better to stagger dates, and then confirm the next upcoming date is on the way.  If the next one flakes, then continue on your current date.  If the next one confirms she’s on her way, you can end your current date (unless you’re really into her or about to close the deal).  

I confirm with each girl the morning of the date around 10 or 11am...I always tell them to "let me know when you are close" so I have an idea of their arrival and don't waste my time.
Yup, I always confirm dates on the day of.  If it’s a morning/early afternoon date, I’ll confirm about an hour in advance.  If it’s an evening date, I usually do it twice: send a morning greeting while bringing up our date later in the day; then, a 1hr in advance confirmation.


I also want to know if you guys have anything you do to actually minimize the chances of girls flaking regardless of just dealing with it by lining up more dates and having logistics sorted.
Overall, I agree it’s challenging.  Because, at the end of the day, a girl’s gonna flake if a girl’s gonna flake.  

Setting up dates same day and no more than 2 days in advance is also a good idea. Too far in advance, girls can forget about a guy they’ve never met, and plans can change a lot.

Keep in mind, she initially agreed to the date based on the value you’ve shown thru meeting in person, online profile/pics, witty/funny banter exchanging texts.  After that point, when she’s already agreed to meet you in person, there’s not much more value you can add or prevent her from changing her mind at the last minute, in my opinion.

If they flake once, I usually give them a second chance before moving on (except for the hotter ones, haha). I try to be direct without sounding desperate.  This is a fine wire to balance, and I say something to the effect of, “Look, you seem like an interesting person and I would like to get to know you better, but I don’t have a lot of time here. Let me know if you’re interested to meet me so we don’t waste each other’s time”.  Being direct like this may push her away, but at least you’ll know where you stand by her response (or lack thereof). It especially sucks when you get flaked on by hotter girls i.e. 8+, because those opportunities are farther and fewer in between. I have a hard time knowing when to keep pursuing vs cutting my losses.

Flakes are part of the game…It sucks but it’s part of the game and they do it too.
Like you said as above, and women do it all the time.  Especially if they have a “BBD” (bigger, better, deal – ‘Hardbodies’, 1984). If another guy with better looks, is taller, ripped physique, and more money wants to meet up with them at the same time, who do you think they’re gonna choose? I think, as discussed, it’s more about maximizing our efficiency and avoid wasting time rather than preventing a woman from changing her mind…

…I choose the one that seems more DTF or the hotter one. If I get more than one confirming for the same time, I usually set a subtle sexual screen to take the more DTF girl.
What is your method to screen and set a sexual tone? If you are only sending about 4-8 back-and-forth messages prior to the date, it seems like other than arranging the logistics/setup of the date, there’s not a lot of time to do this?
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#3
I usually send a text to meet them at a park etc. near to my place and tell that we can listen to music at mine. If they directly say that they don't go to strangers' places in first date I tend to delete the number without saying anything. I have zero interest to take online hoes to eat or sightseeing if there's no real chemistry. I think my record is 7-8 dates set up vaguely during the same day and evening and none of them showed up. Dealing with flakes is like dealing with idiots, remove the number ASAP (exception if I've been occupied with someone else and couldn't meet them anyway) unless they come up with a good reason.
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#4
(01-26-2021, 10:00 PM)battalion Wrote: I usually send a text to meet them at a park etc. near to my place and tell that we can listen to music at mine. If they directly say that they don't go to strangers' places in first date I tend to delete the number without saying anything. I have zero interest to take online hoes to eat or sightseeing..
Damn, that's ruthless...I like it, haha. I have wasted plenty of hours providing free drinks/meals to girls on first dates when there was no chemistry afterwards. But, in Latin America, there is a more providership role expected compared to Western/1st world countries. I guess one advantage of your method is that it cuts right to the chase and screens those who are most likely DTF.

(01-26-2021, 10:00 PM)battalion Wrote: Dealing with flakes is like dealing with idiots, remove the number ASAP (exception if I've been occupied with someone else and couldn't meet them anyway) unless they come up with a good reason.
I have no problem nexting the average flake. It's the hot ones that my penis can't overcome my brain to keep chasing...
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#5
I try to get online girls on a short video call before I meet them. This accomplishes several things:

1. It weeds out the girls who are less interested. These girls are on their phones all day. If they can't find 5 minutes for a short video call then they're not as interested.

2. It makes you stand out from the other dozens of dicks she has lined up, and it can make her feel like she already "knows" you so is less likely to flake on you.

3. It gives you a feel for how she looks (they can't use the angles and deception they use in photos) and whether you like her. If not, you can decide not to meet her and save yourself time.
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#6
I never plan dates. I just invite girls to join me for what I would be doing anyway.
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#7
OP,

So after you ask them about tonight (the 2 girls you decided to not meet), you then turn around and say "ah shit, sorry, just realized I had to do x. can we reschedule?"

I hope you aint messaging them at 4 or 4:30pm after confirming the date in the morning to cancel / flake on them.

That would be some fucked up feminine bitch behavior.

(01-27-2021, 04:38 AM)Suits Wrote: I never plan dates. I just invite girls to join me for what I would be doing anyway.

Many girls wont go for that. They think your primary options flaked on you and now you are scrambling to message girls as backup options. 

If my main date falls through in Vietnam, trying to scramble last minute often results in failure for anything decent.
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#8
(01-27-2021, 05:58 AM)Dash Wrote:
(01-27-2021, 04:38 AM)Suits Wrote: I never plan dates. I just invite girls to join me for what I would be doing anyway.

Many girls wont go for that. They think your primary options flaked on you and now you are scrambling to message girls as backup options. 

If my main date falls through in Vietnam, trying to scramble last minute often results in failure for anything decent.

Negative. I book the women into my schedule well in advance, but if they don’t show, I have no problem enjoying a dinner at my favourite restaurant even without company. I do this all the time without bothering to inviting someone to join me, so it’s not much of an alteration from my normal routine.
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#9
I get what you were trying to say.

Thought you mean you just spontaneously invite girls out last minute.

I know all to well that isn't a very fruitful game plan lol
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#10
(01-26-2021, 10:00 PM)battalion Wrote: I usually send a text to meet them at a park etc. near to my place and tell that we can listen to music at mine. If they directly say that they don't go to strangers' places in first date I tend to delete the number without saying anything. I have zero interest to take online hoes to eat or sightseeing if there's no real chemistry. I think my record is 7-8 dates set up vaguely during the same day and evening and none of them showed up. Dealing with flakes is like dealing with idiots, remove the number ASAP (exception if I've been occupied with someone else and couldn't meet them anyway) unless they come up with a good reason.

I like it. This is a similar strategy I use except I wouldn't set more than 4 per day, but I hear latam has a far higher flake rate than europe so understandable.

If I am really looking to get laid id set up 3-4 girls then screen them several hours before to make sure they are down to go to mine, by that point 1-2 usually drop off saying they're not looking for sex or whatever. Then there usually remains 1-2 that seem down so occasionally I have to flake on 1 girl. Sometimes you do end up feeling like a dick for flaking a few hours before on a seemingly cool chick but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Your experience may differ depending on your location but if i set just 1 girl at a time here i would end up pretty frustrated most of the time due to the amount of flaking. Abundance is the cure.
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#11
(01-27-2021, 06:56 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-27-2021, 05:58 AM)Dash Wrote:
(01-27-2021, 04:38 AM)Suits Wrote: I never plan dates. I just invite girls to join me for what I would be doing anyway.

Many girls wont go for that. They think your primary options flaked on you and now you are scrambling to message girls as backup options. 

If my main date falls through in Vietnam, trying to scramble last minute often results in failure for anything decent.

Negative. I book the women into my schedule well in advance, but if they don’t show, I have no problem enjoying a dinner at my favourite restaurant even without company. I do this all the time without bothering to inviting someone to join me, so it’s not much of an alteration from my normal routine.

Based. I like this a lot. Shouldn't be making women the primary objective of your life. The mindset should be: "If she flakes, i'll enjoy this dinner/drink by myself, and I get to spend more time making money instead and getting a good nights' sleep."

But to OP's original question on how to decrease flake rate, the answer is to get the girl more invested in you. In sales we call this "qualifying". Let me explain:

You meet a girl out and about. Don't number close too soon. Before number closing, ask about what she likes to do, places you could show her, restaurants you like, etc. etc. Give her a reason/excuse to hand over the phone number. But that's not where it ends.

After securing the number, you need to ask for a date / ask what she is doing this weekend or whatever (in-person, literally after she types in her number). Have her verbally confirm a date. If she gives you a "idk i think i'm free", give her a time and a place (based on the conversation you guys have had). Then verbally (still in-person here) confirm on your end and don't text her till the day of the date. With this strategy you shouldn't see more than a 10-20% flake rate.

You obviously can't do this for online game, which is why I don't advise it because it's mostly a waste of time

EDIT: My flake rate in Brazil was no worse than anywhere else in the world, and I spent a lot of time there and "put in work" so to speak. So i'm still not sure where all this broscience of "fLaKe rAtE iS hIgHeR iN LaTAm" is coming from. If a girl wants to see you and doesn't have any logistic problems (living with parents, uber, etc.) she won't flake.

EDIT EDIT: Too many virgins go around "daygaming" and number close in 30 seconds and then ask why girls are flaking on them. Like bro she literally has no reason to go on a date with you, so unless you're Leonardo Di'Caprio you better expect 50%+ flake rates
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#12
My 100% flake-proof strategy: pulling nightgame lol
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#13
A minor thing but I've seen it heaps; when lining up multiple dates for the same day, some dudes insist on having two set up at exactly the same time.

Never really got the logic behind this, I've always thought it was better to layer them, even just half an hour or so apart, perhaps even less if you're comfortable doing a quick bail.
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#14
@Crisp Good point. Actually even weirder is to set various dates in the same venue around the same time. I usually set dates within an hour from each other.
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#15
(01-27-2021, 04:38 AM)Suits Wrote: I never plan dates. I just invite girls to join me for what I would be doing anyway.

This is what I do too, and it's worked well. I pick a bar or place I'd like to visit anyway, and just start drinking. If she shows up, great and I've probably made some friends so that gives a good impression anyway. If not, I still had some good drinks.

You can even do this with errands. Just find a bar or cafe near where you're stuck doing things and meet there -- you probably need a drink anyway at that point.
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#16
(01-27-2021, 05:58 AM)Dash Wrote: OP,

So after you ask them about tonight (the 2 girls you decided to not meet), you then turn around and say "ah shit, sorry, just realized I had to do x. can we reschedule?"

I hope you aint messaging them at 4 or 4:30pm after confirming the date in the morning to cancel / flake on them.

That would be some fucked up feminine bitch behavior.

Hey Dash, in RPB's defense, you are in Vietnam where girls are not flaky relatively speaking. Of all the dates I've had in Saigon and other cities in VN, where I spent three weeks and had dates almost every day, I think only one or two flaked. I'm not surprised that someone who lives in an environment like that can see flaking by women or men as shitty behavior. RPB is in Latin America (and so am I at the moment) and has to deal with some of the flakiest girls in the world. The kind of girls that even if you give them multiple orgasms, they might flake on you next time you agree to meet. My point is, we have to adapt to the environment we're in.
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#17
If I doublebook a date or even have 2 dates planned in one day, it makes me uncomfortable. Not that O never do it, lol. But it feels like my whole day is around dates and as mentioned, I feel an inner discomfort. So I'm trying to avoid it.
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#18
(01-29-2021, 11:47 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:
(01-27-2021, 05:58 AM)Dash Wrote: OP,

So after you ask them about tonight (the 2 girls you decided to not meet), you then turn around and say "ah shit, sorry, just realized I had to do x. can we reschedule?"

I hope you aint messaging them at 4 or 4:30pm after confirming the date in the morning to cancel / flake on them.

That would be some fucked up feminine bitch behavior.

Hey Dash, in RPB's defense, you are in Vietnam where girls are not flaky relatively speaking. Of all the dates I've had in Saigon and other cities in VN, where I spent three weeks and had dates almost every day, I think only one or two flaked. I'm not surprised that someone who lives in an environment like that can see flaking by women or men as shitty behavior. RPB is in Latin America (and so am I at the moment) and has to deal with some of the flakiest girls in the world. The kind of girls that even if you give them multiple orgasms, they might flake on you next time you agree to meet. My point is, we have to adapt to the environment we're in.

If flaking was a problem for me I would double or triple book a few days before and confirm in the morning. Then go with the one who confirms the meet that night and send the other girls a sorry rain check message before noon. 

I would not be messaging them 30-60 minutes before to flake on them.
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#19
I stood up a girl recently and it's not a good feeling, having said that I also had a "date" that went nowhere and that experience would have been so much better if I had another date waiting for me right after.
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#20
(01-30-2021, 01:35 PM)Shifty Wrote: I stood up a girl recently and it's not a good feeling, having said that I also had a "date" that went nowhere and that experience would have been so much better if I had another date waiting for me right after.

you can set up maybes

ie tell a girl you are working on a project for work with your team and depending on when it finishes you would like to meet her. 

tell her you will confirm with her around x time on the progress and if it looks like you will finish in time to meet.
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