Lame post
#21
Dash I am not explaining why being a player is immoral because I am unable to but because it is irrelevant. You are either being willfully pedantic or missing the point of my posts.
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#22
I appreciate the feedback. You guys make some very valid points. I didnt fuck my workmate yet and really I shouldnt, what I am realizing is that this is a bit about me wanting to end my marriage, that's something that I will have to give some serious thought.
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#23
OP, since you work with the girl that should be an automatic no-go in my book.  No reason in banging a coworker (married or not) and risking the fallout that could affect your livelihood.  There are plenty of women who are DTF and also not your coworker, you just have to find them.

As far as being married and cheating, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that those who are claiming to have some sort of moral compass condemning the act have obviously never been married before.  This is purely my experience, but the downside of experiencing a size-able amount of fun and exhilarating casual sex before getting hitched is that it is not a switch that can be easily turned off.  I was married before (it was a pretty fucked up marriage from the get go for varying reasons) and cheated on numerous occasions, partly because I was out of town most of the time for work and always had access to booze and a hotel room.  And also partly because I would get these urges to do it, urges that I could not control.  The best way to describe it is that I felt like the main character in Dexter who had a thirst for chopping up serial killers.  That was me to a T except the only thing I was slaying was pussy.  You get that thirst and it's not quenched until you do the deed.  I even had my own "code" to give myself somewhat of a boundary and justification for my actions, being that I would only fuck around while out on work trips.  At first I felt like a total ass until I eventually accepted that it was just who I am deep down inside.  I did however break my own code twice though, and I was fairly hard on myself about it.

Like I said it was a fucked up marriage from the onset, and when it came time to part ways she admitted she had a hunch I was fucking around while on the road, but that she never cared as long as I came back home to her.  Then she told me that she didn't want to know if I had cheated.  Smart girl.  She understood men enough to know that it is something we are hard wired to do, and understood herself as a woman enough to not give a damn about the details as long as we maintained our physical and emotional connection.  

Honestly I wouldn't change a thing about my past behavior and have zero regrets over it. I could bullshit myself and pretend to feel bad about it but the reality is I proudly spread my seed across the contiguous 48 states of the US, Canada, and Mexico, and had a hell of a lot of debaucherous and satisfying experiences while doing so.
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#24
(11-26-2020, 05:33 PM)Dash Wrote: @Churros

I didn't view your post as singling me out or me taking it personal as judging etc.

I am still not following your reasoning.

I removed religion from this topic, so the priest opinion wouldn't matter.

Whether a traditional woman would tolerate it or not doesn't make it "bad" or "immoral".

Religiously speaking, yes, banging a lot of women is morally wrong.

However, we can't look at this topic through religion as not everyone is religious and or shares the same religious beliefs.

When you take away the religious aspect, there is no argument (that I am aware of) to make banging a lot of women morally wrong.

Depends on if a guy is up front with girls he's banging.  Banging 100 girls and being honest with them about your intentions is much better than telling one girl you love her just to fuck her.  I myself am also against cheating.  Not just morally (I don't care if other people cheat) but I don't want the drama/worrying that comes with cheating on a partner.
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#25
Quote:As far as being married and cheating, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that those who are claiming to have some sort of moral compass condemning the act have obviously never been married before.

Right. There's a lot of moral high ground being spoken here. 

The OP clearly has serious issues with his marriage. The advice of "not shitting where you eat" is probably the best thing to say about it. If you want to dabble in seriously ending your marriage, don't tank your job/career with it. There are also probably better places to go to for this than on this forum. Come back here for solid advice later if needed, but right now, this is definitely not where OP need to be.
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#26
(12-01-2020, 11:33 PM)Shimmy Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 05:33 PM)Dash Wrote: @Churros

I didn't view your post as singling me out or me taking it personal as judging etc.

I am still not following your reasoning.

I removed religion from this topic, so the priest opinion wouldn't matter.

Whether a traditional woman would tolerate it or not doesn't make it "bad" or "immoral".

Religiously speaking, yes, banging a lot of women is morally wrong.

However, we can't look at this topic through religion as not everyone is religious and or shares the same religious beliefs.

When you take away the religious aspect, there is no argument (that I am aware of) to make banging a lot of women morally wrong.

Depends on if a guy is up front with girls he's banging.  Banging 100 girls and being honest with them about your intentions is much better than telling one girl you love her just to fuck her.  I myself am also against cheating.  Not just morally (I don't care if other people cheat) but I don't want the drama/worrying that comes with cheating on a partner.

That is a completely separate issue ie lying. 

Telling a girl you love her just to fuck her is absolutely wrong.
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#27
(12-29-2020, 04:08 PM)Dash Wrote:
(12-01-2020, 11:33 PM)Shimmy Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 05:33 PM)Dash Wrote: @Churros

I didn't view your post as singling me out or me taking it personal as judging etc.

I am still not following your reasoning.

I removed religion from this topic, so the priest opinion wouldn't matter.

Whether a traditional woman would tolerate it or not doesn't make it "bad" or "immoral".

Religiously speaking, yes, banging a lot of women is morally wrong.

However, we can't look at this topic through religion as not everyone is religious and or shares the same religious beliefs.

When you take away the religious aspect, there is no argument (that I am aware of) to make banging a lot of women morally wrong.

Depends on if a guy is up front with girls he's banging.  Banging 100 girls and being honest with them about your intentions is much better than telling one girl you love her just to fuck her.  I myself am also against cheating.  Not just morally (I don't care if other people cheat) but I don't want the drama/worrying that comes with cheating on a partner.

That is a completely separate issue ie lying. 

Telling a girl you love her just to fuck her is absolutely wrong.

Aren't there degrees of lying? Most girls who put out in Vietnam, for example, do so in expectation of a relationship. Are you not fronting that on some level with them?
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#28
Not really sure if I agree with you. Of course some Westernised Viets fuck around but I've travelled quite a bit and these girls by and large target relationships.
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#29
(12-29-2020, 11:01 PM)longships Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 09:36 PM)churros Wrote: Not really sure if I agree with you. Of course some Westernised Viets fuck around but I've travelled quite a bit and these girls by and large target relationships.

Definitely, at least to a much larger extent than girls in the West, and for many reasons, agreed.

But.

The vast majority of the girls on dating apps and in nightclubs, be they American or Viet or any other nationality, they're not targeting relationships, their actions speak louder than words.  And that dating app, nightclub, and "randomly messaging dudes on Facebook" pool is the pool folks like Dash and other guys looking for casual relations primarily draw from.

And those girls by and large aren't naive, aren't being taken for a ride, aren't being bamboozled, they're fully aware of what they're doing.  

If anything they're taking the guys for a ride at the girl's whims, as there's always a new dude where that dude came from.

I'm just saying Dash could, morally speaking, be on the up and up. Not saying he is or isn't, I'm just saying it's totally possible. Although that's more in theory, in reality things get messy.

So yeah that behavior, given time, chips away at you, cuz you'll inevitably hurt someone you thought was just one more girl playing the player, but it turns out she was a nice girl and you were just too jaded to notice.

It happens. On a long enough timeline that behavior eats away at you, for sure.

longships, you've clearly never been to Saigon. The vast majority of girls on dating apps - including Tinder - are looking for relationships there. I speak from first-hand experience as I lived there for a year in 2018/2019. Even slutty-looking Viet girls are usually looking for a relationship. And I lived there as a well put-together 26 year old, not a 40+ dude. And I have a number of friends that have had similar experiences.

I agree with a lot of what churros said, and I'll add that it's probably a hell of a lot easier to stay faithful to a hot 18-24 year old girlfriend that you've been dating for a year than the 40 year old wife that you've been with for 15 years and has popped out 2-3 kids. I can't say for sure because I've never been married. I can say that I have been faithful to my hot 20 year old girlfriend for the 15 months we've been together - but doing that does NOT give me license to take the moral high ground over someone who has cheated on their wife.

All to say: you guys shouldn't talk authoritatively on things that you don't have experience with.
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#30
(12-30-2020, 02:03 AM)klh Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 04:08 PM)Dash Wrote: Telling a girl you love her just to fuck her is absolutely wrong.

Telling a whole forum about a nonexistent rooftop bar just to impress them is absolutely wrong.

Dash must have had a religious epiphany.

But yeah, the whole point of game is to give men better choices.  That includes not throwing away your job, kids, and marriage for a scrap of new pussy.  If you want an open marriage, then renegotiate with your wife.  Go outside the marriage consciously and righteously, not opportunistically.

What exactly in impressive about mentioning what you thought was a non exclusive normal rooftop bar (that you didn't even claim to go to)?

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would realize they were mentioning it to describe the surroundings. 

You would have been better off trying to claim that with the girl I initially posted and said I fucked (which I didn't), but later posted unknowingly the real one (her friend that I actually fucked). Although, the real one was hotter def with the body imo. But one could argue differently. Wink

Ive always been religious. Well believed in religion / God. I stopped going to church regularly once I left for college.

Would like to start going back, but it's a bit shameful when one lives as I do.

(12-29-2020, 04:56 PM)churros Wrote: Aren't there degrees of lying? Most girls who put out in Vietnam, for example, do so in expectation of a relationship. Are you not fronting that on some level with them?

I believe there are degrees to lying. 

For example, I see nothing wrong with telling a girl I don't want to meet that I am busy when I am doing fuck all at my apartment. 

I see something very wrong with telling your GF/Wife you are at work when you are fucking a whore you met at the bar. 

Not really sure I agree with your statement on Viet girls. Saigon has a lot of progressive slooty party girls. Most of the girls ive banged make no attempt (noticeable) to make me their BF. Fairly casual interactions. 

Take a look at tinder and you will quickly see an ocean of young slutty looking girls in Saigon. I am often shocked girls will post pictures like that out in the open.

Just because one would like a relationship doesn't mean they are not open or would not like something fun in the meantime while waiting.

Females long for attention, affection and romance. They can't help themselves.

But, I am sure there are also plenty that do. But id expect these type of women to be fucking you to get a green card or a better life. Or simply trying to use their pussy to whip you into submission for what ever reason. 

With all that said, I am not one who thinks simply choosing not to openly say or admit something is a lie. For me, a lie is when you directly state something that is false. Either when asked directly or just my you bringing it up on your own. 

Guy tells a girl he wants her to be his GF and he loves her yada yada when he just wants to fuck = Lie

Guy simply invites a girl out to eat and for drinks and bangs her (no mention of intentions or feelings) when he just wants to fuck = Not a lie

Some might disagree, but these are my feelings on the matter.
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#31
(12-30-2020, 05:45 PM)Dash Wrote: For example, I see nothing wrong with telling a girl I don't want to meet that I am busy when I am doing fuck all at my apartment. 

I see something very wrong with telling your GF/Wife you are at work when you are fucking a whore you met at the bar. 

[Image: giphy.gif]
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#32
Thought process behind it is

1) I have no obligation or commitment to said random girl.

2) Me telling a random girl I am busy doesn't hurt her in any meaningful / significant way

3) A GF/Wife is someone ive made commitments /vows to.

4) Me lying about working when I am cheating on my GF/Wife could seriously hurt her and or my family.

Id probably say there are 4 degrees of lying

1 - meaningless / insignificant
2 - eye brow raising / annoyance
3 - significant / impactful
4 - egregious / unimaginable

Telling a random hoe your busy
= potentially she is maybe angry or annoyed for a short time
= level 1

Telling your partner you are at work late when you are out with your friends partying
= potentially them getting angry and questioning your honesty
= level 2

Caught lying cheating with wife
= potentially her divorcing guy and kids being taken from their father
= level 3

Telling someone a car is fine when you know the brakes are shot
= potentially killing someone in a car accident
= level 4
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#33
(01-01-2021, 09:26 AM)Dash Wrote: Thought process behind it is

1) I have no obligation or commitment to said random girl.

2) Me telling a random girl I am busy doesn't hurt her in any meaningful / significant way

3) A GF/Wife is someone ive made commitments /vows to.

4) Me lying about working when I am cheating on my GF/Wife could seriously hurt her and or my family.

I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I actually kinda agree with Dash here.

The other aspect to this is that lying to people who will be in your life in the future is much more likely to be damaging to you than lying to some slut who wouldn't think twice about doing the same to you.

Similarly, it doesn't bother me in the slightest to lie to some seasoned cockrider to get laid, but doing the same to a bright eyed virgin who just started her freshman year of university seems less ethically defensible.
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#34
^^

Guys who think cheating is the same as meaningless white lies to randoms is just a copping mechanism and them trying to justify or excuse their actions.


Quote:I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I actually kinda agree with Dash here.

What exactly do I promote that you disagree with? Curious 

I'd consider myself fairly middle spectrum in most my opinions. Usually don't swing too far in either direction. (with the exception of some governance things, i get pretty radical in those lol)
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#35
(12-01-2020, 11:33 PM)Shimmy Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 05:33 PM)Dash Wrote: @Churros

I didn't view your post as singling me out or me taking it personal as judging etc.

I am still not following your reasoning.

I removed religion from this topic, so the priest opinion wouldn't matter.

Whether a traditional woman would tolerate it or not doesn't make it "bad" or "immoral".

Religiously speaking, yes, banging a lot of women is morally wrong.

However, we can't look at this topic through religion as not everyone is religious and or shares the same religious beliefs.

When you take away the religious aspect, there is no argument (that I am aware of) to make banging a lot of women morally wrong.

Depends on if a guy is up front with girls he's banging.  Banging 100 girls and being honest with them about your intentions is much better than telling one girl you love her just to fuck her.  I myself am also against cheating.  Not just morally (I don't care if other people cheat) but I don't want the drama/worrying that comes with cheating on a partner.

Dash, where you @@@@ these days? I am out to Korea (!!!!!!!!!!!!!), VN and Bruma once vaccine comes through. Gonna have a "cough" and "fever" for a few weeks...

That's right. It depends where you are in terms of being up front. Saying "I wanna marry you and take you back to England." is a different animal than saying "I just got out of a relationship, so I am struggling, just keeping the door option open now, but not looking for a marriage or relation right now." IMO. Depends who you dealing with too. Where you are from and where they are from. Honstly, you F and S on some crazy level, f'it, I'd consider locking you down. But I am not gonna pretend other shit is going on meanwhile
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#36
You see, this is why people hate Christians – the unjustified judgement of others, the hypocrisy. I feel like I'm reading the letters of the Zodiac killer, where he explains why each victim is another soul that helps him in the afterlife. It must be something to do with living in the third world, where you get so detached from society – you can't even speak the langage – that you basically have to make it up as you go along, and noone will correct you.

Well, let me give you a reality check.

Having a family puts you in the club of "adults" in society's view. That's not just because families contribute to society but because fathers/husbands have real responsibility. How many times have I smiled faintly as my single friends talk about "love", "children", and blather about what married life is all about. It sounds like a Disney film to me. You just have no idea how little you know. The mature guys in this thread understand this, even if they're not married yet.

Lets put the facts on the table. In this thread, an English teacher that has been fucking his way around Vietnam for several years is claiming moral superiority over married men who get action on the side. He is not only "white lying" to the Vietnamese girls – the vast majority of whom want a relationship – but lying to himself, since in the first post of his Vietnam thread, he claimed to be looking for a wife! You can't make it up.

I read somewhere that Dash is Christian so let's put it in Biblical terms he can understand. It's as if the worm were to judge the ox.

Put your money where your mouth is. Get married, then I'll listen to your opinion on the matter.
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#37
@Churros

There is a difference is saying "Mike is a bad person" and "Mike stealing is wrong." The former would be judging him. I am not saying anyone is a bad person. We all fuck up. Myself included (a lot). So not following your judgement or hypocrisy angle.

Of course being married and having kids makes a man have real responsibility. People are literally depending on him for survival.

Ive been fucking my way around the world for over a decade now. Get your facts right lol Wink

Not sure you can claim the "moral superiority" card. I've never said anyone was bad. I've never said I was good.

I've stated facts.

1) Cheating on your GF or wife is bad under normal circumstances.

2) There are degrees of lies which I clearly outlined on the page. I'd classify them into 4 degrees myself, but that is fairly subjective. Which technically speaking all are immoral when a religious context, even me telling a random I am busy when I am not.

Pretty sure the above can be seen in various laws we have. eg Lying about a fire in a cinema vs telling a girl you are a doctor when you are an EMS driver.

Not sure why you are getting so defensive Churros. Relax bro.

t's ok to have a different opinion. If you want to think cheating on your wife is perfectly ok, that's you. If you want to think telling a random female you are busy when you are not is the same as telling someone a car they are buying from you is in good condition when you know the brakes are about to fall off, that you. You are entitled to your opinion.

Once we discuss our opinions and reasonings for them, then it's alright to agree to disagree.

No need to get defensive and come with the snarky comments.
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#38
(01-01-2021, 10:16 AM)Dash Wrote:
Quote:I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I actually kinda agree with Dash here.

What exactly do I promote that you disagree with? Curious 

Just had a quick look through your posting history and there's actually a lot more that I agree with than I realized.

Not sure why I had that impression.
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#39
Did I log on to RVF by coincidence? The equality paradigm is well accepted here it seems.

There's a lot of guys that seem to be confused about the dating game. Ok, fair enough, being married is another thing, especially with children, so I will leave that out of the discussion (it can also be an interesting discussion but different), but thinking that lying to get girls is wrong lol.

Dating is essentially a game of deception, the days were you just had to 'be yourself' or 'be a standup man' to get quality girls are long over guys. This is not Disney land. Both sides, both women and men, lie continuously in all varying degrees to get the upper hand in a relationship and that is the standard, not the exception. Love (between two high value individuals without children) is not a harmonious peaceful state of balance, but a stalemate in a continuous war. The reason why a man must master all types of deception are manifold, but to summarize a few key things:

-Women reward assholes / dark triad types / deceptive men

I thought this was a well established fact in the game community, but apparently not. There's still guys who think that living a morally correct life is appealing to women in some sort. It is not. Women like to feel they can lose you at any second, they like to continuously guess what your intentions are, they like drama in their lives and love a man that puts them in their place at times. A bad boy that lies, cheats and knows when to be emotionally abusive to them is always getting the pussy over a guy that thinks he is doing the right thing. Don't hate the player, hate the game. We didn't design woman's biological imperatives. Why do you think every woman loves to watch mexican/turkish/nigerian etc. novelas/soaps everyday, where each episode someone cheats, someone gets in a fight, a woman gets knocked up etc.? Because they love the drama and it excites them. They dream of such a life of continuous emotional rollercoasters and the guy that will give it to them is not Mr. nice and 100% moral.

-Being ambiguous is always more appealing to women

If you want to be a 100% moral man, then that means you follow a strict code of rules. You are then by default predicable and boring to women, they will never be surprised by your behaviour and there will be no fear of losing you, no tingles in their vagina that you might trade them up for a better girl. I am all in favour to moral codes between men and also within your family, but in a very competitive dating world where young attractive women have all the cards, your morals are setting you up to lose. In general, moral codes are designed by men for men, they are there to keep lasting peace within communities. Women have never respected morals the same way as men do. All is fair in love and war also implies you cannot have the same moral codes in your daily interactions with fellow men and family as you can when trying to seduce many beautiful women.

-A man playing several hands at the same time is always better positioned to get quality women

This is another base rule of game. If you are 100% all in on one girl, you are in a weak position and women will sense it immediately. It will shine through in everything that you do (in your words, your body language, ...) the fact that you took yourself off the market, that you abide by the rules set by women in the dating game (indeed it's their rules as they create the offer in a market that has high demand). On the other hand, if you have several women ready at your disposal, the highest quality one that you most value will notice that she cannot control you, that you are aloof to many of her tricks and manipulations, always one foot out the door, never emotionally vulnerable. All these things will be exactly why you are the prize and not her and she will reward you for it in every way she can trying to get the upper hand again (and women do so by fucking you primarily). Now I can already hear the counterargument, that a high value man is naturally like that and doesn't need to have several women to have the same level of what is essentially inner game. That might be so when you are dating someone on your level, but guess what if you are a male 7 (based on looks mainly) dating a girl that is a 9 and every place you go every man there is aiming to get your woman and everyone in the whole environment knows you are dating up and is trying to break that sweet deal of yours, it will make your life much easier if that inner game control you have is based on you actually having real options, not being reliant for your sexual needs to one girl and having the experience dealing with many top girls rather than you having to convince yourself how none of these external threats actually affect you (when they clearly do).

-If you only date one woman at a time, you are less competitive toward those that don't.

This one is a bit lesser discussed, but it is basic logic. A guy that continuously dates 2-5 girls and who is never truly single is getting much more practice and experience to land the one high quality girl he will want to have children with one day compared to the guy that is morally correct, dates one girl, then loses her, has to reinvent himself in the game that he had abandoned for a while, gets back to dating one girl and so forth. As Malcolm Gladwell stated, you need thousands of hours of anything to become perfect so you better get to work.

-Women cheat with their body, men with their heart.

This one is ripe for discussion, but for a man to fuck another woman will not really change much of how he feels for his nr.1 woman, meanwhile a girl that cheats means in most cases something very different, beyond the purely physical. Ask yourself, what would hurt you the most: your woman admitting to have fucked an alpha in the restroom of some discotheque or her saying she got some feelings for a guy at work but never acted on it? I'd prefer the second no doubt. Then ask how it would be for the girlfriend, would she get over you having a quickie with a hot slut somewhere easier than you telling her you got feelings for another girl? I'd guess she would.

-Does the result justify the means?

Look at countries where men in general are masculine, have no respect or little morals toward women and where there are clearly differentiated standards for each sex. The whole Eastern Europe is like this, Latin America n the Caribbean, Africa as well, not sure about Asia. Look at cultures where men and women are supposedly equal and a man cheating is the same as a woman cheating. Western Europe, US, Australia, Canada... In the first group, men dominate society and set the rules, in the second women have more power.

Some reflections by a guy that once was Mr.100% morally correct and was at a strong disadvantage because of it and has since changed his ways.

Now as for OP, whatever you decide to do, make sure your kids are not affected by it, that is the number one thing. If it is a purely biological need, then better to go fuck a prostitute somewhere. If it is more than that (which it surely is), decide based on what you know about this girl if there is a danger that she will mess up your work environment or even your marriage. If you are certain there isn't a threat, decide for yourself why you want to do this. It might be just taking the edge of so that you can continue a good marriage or maybe you decided that your marriage is over, but you can keep it sane (with the children in mind) by having a side dish once in a while. And maybe there are some married ex players here that can give some advice based on actual experience.
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#40
(01-02-2021, 03:28 PM)Rottenapple Wrote: Don't hate the player, hate the game. We didn't design woman's biological imperatives. Why do you think every woman loves to watch mexican/turkish/nigerian etc. novelas/soaps everyday, where each episode someone cheats, someone gets in a fight, a woman gets knocked up etc.? Because they love the drama and it excites them. They dream of such a life of continuous emotional rollercoasters and the guy that will give it to them is not Mr. nice and 100% moral.

This is the part that a lot of people seem to miss. We don't get to choose that the world that we live in. For better or worse (I would argue for worse, though that's a whole separate topic), this is the way the game is played now. Maybe it always has been. But playing several hands and being ambiguous/unpredictable works far, far better than the opposite.

Having said that, we all have to draw the line somewhere. These are some of my rules/boundaries:

1) Don't play girls who aren't "in the game". Any girl drinking at a club or on Tinder/Hinge is in the game. A virgin who I meet at Starbucks and just managed to charm at the right place and right time... probably isn't. It's a judgement call of course, but I feel like I know it when I see it.
2) If a girl catches too strong of feelings and I don't see a future with her in any way, try to cut it off. Have had too many painful experiences when I didn't do this.
3) I don't go out of my way to trick a girl into thinking that I'm Mr. Right. I'm usually pretty upfront about my lack of desire for commitment and that I probably won't change for her. Of course, this usually works in my favor, but at least there's plausible deniability on my part.

Some of you might be comfortable going further, while others less - your mileage way vary. I just think that catering to a women's biological imperatives can lead down a deep rabbit hole unless you set lines that you don't typically cross.
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