Things You've Learned from LTRs
#1
For me, in no particular order:

- Girls (and likely people in general) show you who they really are when they're under stress. Travel is one way to bring that out, since it rarely goes 100% smoothly. Key here is to observe how a girl reacts: does she become negative, or does she remain productive?

- You won't really know someone until you've lived with them, and observed their habits. Are they lazy? Procrastinating? Or are they proactive? Most folks put on a better front than they really are. Before you live with them, they'll more easily be able to sell you excuses for their faults.

- A useful early warning sign: if a girl is consistently late to your dates, she's not mother-of-your-children material. Why? Because she can't plan for the near future, never mind after that. She may blame traffic and such, but that's life. Mothers-of-children have to plan around that.

- Another useful early warning sign: if a girl doesn't dress & act feminine, she's not mother-of-your-children material. You want a girl who's caring, right? Well, that stems from a feminine mindset. And that mindset manifests itself in feminine clothing & behavior.

- If you have any inclination to look for a mother of your children, don't be half-assed about it. Finding one, as you might see from the above, is at least a magnitude harder than finding bangs. Girls can't have it all, and neither can you. Plus what guy of value would be in an LTR that didn't lead to marriage & kids? He'd be more productive collecting flags & writing about it, never mind happier. And at the end of the day, as men, we need to produce, whether that's kids, or telling other guys how to get bangs. Hedonism itself just doesn't cut it, because it's an endless treadmill.

What have you guys learned from LTRs?

Note that I'm not here to debate whether LTRs are worth it or not. There's already a thread for that: < http://www.swooptheworld.com/forum/showt...hp?tid=113 > Successful LTRs are way harder than successful bangs.
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#2
I think this is a good topic and I'm surprised there have not been more responses. The reality is that most guys are going to end up in some form of long term relationship. It might be the live in girlfriend or wife or it might be the chick you visit for a few weeks a year in some other country. Here's the most important things I've learned.

1. Vet the hell out women before you move in with them. Especially in the US it's easy to fake your financial situation and it's something to be very careful about because people can easily drag you down

2. If you live with a woman who is not as wealthy as you, make sure all the utilities are in her name so you don't get screwed when she can't/won't pay

3. Say no early and often. Don't be a dick but make sure she's used to you saying no as far too many people are too compliant in the early stages of relationships

4. Use condoms or make sure she has a non-hormonal method of birth control. Many women forget they're pro-choice when the "right" guy knocks them up

5. Stay active socially. 

6. Don't be too open about your financial situation

7. Be wary of being taken advantage of

Long story short most relationships go bad over money or sex. When you date down, by choice or chance, make sure your financial future is locked down tight and don't let anyone ruin it.
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#3
First learned point would be that holding frame is one of the most important keys to maintaining less drama and greater happiness. Ultimately it means you come first.

Second, to talk less and think before you speak or act (to her or anyone else). The more you talk or act, the more likely you are validating her because most men are not consciously thinking about what they are saying. When she does something positive (takes her clothes off, cooks a meal for you, acts submissively, etc.) say something to her, give her a kiss, reward her. You are molding her, you are training her. If she consistently has that look of admiration when she looks at you, you are on the right track.

Third, to use a woman´s follicular and luteal phases of the menstrual cycle as one of the primary tools in maintaining a low drama and satisfying LTR. Realize that certain generalizations apply in the first half of the cycle where they are more relaxed, reality is relatively more reflected in their thoughts and perceptions, their memory is better, they are slightly more motivated, they eat more, they are more sexually aggressive and generally more focused on the outside world and more likely to create and contribute to the outside world including you. They actually produce more cervical fluid and their skin often looks better, they often exercise more, tend to be more social and gossiping increases. In the second half of the cycle, they become more focused on themselves internally and their own feelings and are less relaxed, their thoughts and perceptions mirror reality less so, they fatigue more easily, etc., etc.. This increases as each day passes. They are seeking more care and comfort from others (hint do not give them very much make them earn it and use this as a good opportunity to train them).
Get busy living or get busy dying!
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#4
PT that analysis is brilliant. I would love to get going on the psychological/hormonal considerations in gaming and/or relationships. It's really the next frontier of gaming (as is interior China).
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#5
1) Never stop gaming - A woman is gone as soon as she loses attraction for you. I always want to get lazy and not put any work into teasing and laughing with her etc, but when I stop doing that I start to lose girls. When I'm gaming, they are in love.
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#6
(11-01-2017, 12:37 AM)k pop Wrote: PT that analysis is brilliant. I would love to get going on the psychological/hormonal considerations in gaming and/or relationships. It's really the next frontier of gaming (as is interior China).

In places where there is less concrete, some of the challenges are different because the social systems are more closed and have a certain rigidness to them.  I am thinking of places like the interior of China, Nepal, rural India, tribal Africa, even parts of central Africa.  A tribe in a place like the middle of the Amazon would be an extreme example.
Be professional, be polite, but always have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
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#7
(11-04-2017, 02:31 AM)20Nation Wrote: 1) Never stop gaming - A woman is gone as soon as she loses attraction for you. I always want to get lazy and not put any work into teasing and laughing with her etc, but when I stop doing that I start to lose girls. When I'm gaming, they are in love.

Easy way to do this is to enjoy the Game.

See it as a boyish challenge to troll her.

Enjoy her pleasant indignation.
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#8
The strongest factor correlating to having a positive (happy and low drama) relationship with a woman which is more than just sex, is to carefully scrutinize her background and actions related to her father and the other men in her family and past, then compare those for consistency and afterward line this up with your first-hand experience with her over long periods of time. The primary attributes in how she relates to those male figures include her submission, ability to take direction, and most importantly her respectful disposition and communications toward them.

The second factor would be her ability to delay gratification. Look for women who have or can do without, where their fathers did not give them everything and enforced some measure of discipline.

Thirdly, examine her closest 5 friends, their backgrounds and how they talk with one another.

The fourth factor, if you are considering offspring, is to examine her and her family´s genetics.


Never found a woman worthy of a relationship (shit) who did not have a positive relationship with her father, or with most of the men in her life.
Get busy living or get busy dying!
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#9
P.T's analysis is golden.

Many of us would argue against dating women you work with. I have many times. "dont' shit in your own nest. don't piss off your own dock".. etc etc... However, there is one upshot to this. You see the women under stress, day after day. This speaks volume to their overall functioning, including in relationships.

Observing women in stressful situations is a massive predictor of relational success. In a LTR, you will experience significant strife and stress, and how this is managed will determine the success or failure of your relationship. I currently work in a large public ghetto school in the shitsac US of A. 90% of the staff are women, and there is 1.. yes 1 that holds up under pressure. She approaches everything with smile and with, and realizes that we can't complain for what we sign up for. Those characteristic most likely carry over to her relationships. If she can handle with grace 25 crazy 10 years olds, she can undoubtedly handle me. I am slowly, actively courting her with a diametrically different game that what we espouse here. She is my long game, and my sharpest tool is patience.
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#10
Sometimes I wonder if in any LTR, eventually, you end up being her psychiatrist, hearing about all the (mostly in her head) drama in her life, even if she puts on a great face in public under stress.

Maybe gotta tell her to do her bitching with the bitches, put bluntly for here of course.
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#11
Looking back on my ex, here are some things I missed:

Excessive browsing of social media. We talk about excessive attention whoring on social media, but even excessive browsing has been correlated with depression.

Odd sleep patterns (ie Facebook tells you when someone was last active). These patterns are also correlated with depression.

Unusual levels of anxiety. One time it took her like an hour to work up the courage to go to a work party (she was already ready), where she already knew and worked with most of the people there. Anxiety is correlated with depression.

How you meet her can be how you lose her. I didn't actually lose her this way (I dumped her because she didn't want help for her depression), but having met her after a concert via gutter "day" game, it'd be likely that she'd meet the next guy the same way.
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#12
Some other things that came to my mind:

1) Don't forget to reward her for good behavior. It's all too easy to be like, "Nah, I'm awesome, I shouldn't have to reward it." Think of it this way: If you were teaching a dog a trick, but never rewarded the dog when it did the trick right, how would the dog know what you want?

It goes without saying to punish bad behavior. But that actually is related to my next point:

2) Don't inadvertently reward bad behavior. I think I did this by giving more of my attention - in the form of fixes - when she was depressed. The bulk of my attention should've been given to reward good behavior, such that she'd be more naturally inclined to it, rather than reaching for sadness to get my attention.

3) Recommended reading: https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Guide-Wo...0990686442 - a red-pill look at how to navigate relationships, by a man, for men. One random nugget: look at your family history. Turns out my dad, and my mom's dad, married women with mental illnesses. Had I know that before, I could've looked out for it.
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#13
How my ex's depression manifested itself, in case it wasn't clear: https://swooptheworld.com/forum/showthre...51#pid8051

In case anyone is wondering, the reason I didn't cut her sooner is that I took to heart what some on this side of the Internet say:

"Be the rock her waves of emotion can crash upon."

What I didn't know, however, is that at least needs to be balanced with:

"The drama you invite into your life is not free, and will take its toll on you."

I think the balance here is to be there when something truly bad happens (close friend or relative dies, etc) but also not to let yourself get dragged down if she can't manage a clear, mature, and stable response. (Clear, mature, and stable being the "bright triad" that the author of the book I recommended suggests you look for. Also note that mature doesn't mean old, since some old chicks can be quite immature).
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#14
Great thread idea.

One thing I can add is LTR's let you see if the girl has any physical or mental health conditions.
This is VITALLY important, especially if you want to live and/or have children with her.
Before the 20th century people lived in small towns and villages and people knew the reputation and history of each family (whether they had ever acted strangely, committed crimes or had physical or mental illnesses).

Nowadays you have no clue if the girl you are with is carrying genetic prediposals towards certain diseases/disabilities/weaknesses that she may pass onto your children, or if she herself is full of health problems or is shows signs of madness/depression/mental illnesses.
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#15
LTRs are usually not forever. So have a plan for when things go south. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.
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#16
Dating is really a form of recreation that features intimacy but you're not truly sharing your life. Both parties "perform" during the date. They are being the most attractive they can be. Once you start cohabitating you see what the person is like when they're not performing anymore. The mystique dissolves. So I think for an LTR it's important to maintain space and some formality and not let things get too domestic.
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#17
For context regarding my experiences with LTRs, earlier this year my girlfriend and I of 7.5 yrs. split up. I'm still fucking her on an every other week basis, but I've made no commitment to her and have no intentions to do so again. Basically I presented things to her thus: "If you want to come over for sex and affection, I'm okay with that and you're welcome here. But I have no intentions of staying here long term, so one day I may simply up and opt for elsewhere."

(05-25-2019, 02:45 PM)shemp Wrote: LTRs are usually not forever. So have a plan for when things go south. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

I can't state how important this is. After she broke up with me, I was pissed for about a week, but got over it quickly enough. I was more thankful for what didn't happen, than what did -- we didn't have a nasty divorce to contend with, we hadn't made the mistake of reproducing, and we didn't live together. I was busy settling into my new role at my job, remodeling and repainting my apartment, and less than a month away from taking off to Japan.

I think I would have reacted much more negatively to the breakup had I not been dealing with multiple other things.

If I wind up in another relationship, I now know that to help inoculate myself against the pains that accompany a breakup, that I need to have shit going on in life outside of my job and said relationship.

(05-26-2019, 04:12 AM)questing1970 Wrote: Dating is really a form of recreation that features intimacy but you're not truly sharing your life.  Both parties "perform" during the date.  They are being the most attractive they can be.  Once you start cohabitating you see what the person is like when they're not performing anymore.  The mystique dissolves.  So I think for an LTR it's important to maintain space and some formality and not let things get too domestic.

I read an RVF post essentially quipping, "The first six months of a relation involve presenting to the other person who you want them to think you are. The next six months are figuring out who the other person really is."
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#18
Most people "check out" of a relationship way before it ends, usually women are the ones that check out but it actually happened to me.

I started to get to know the girl I was dating and I started to like her less and less, I stopped listening to her and my eagerness to be with her was going into the negatives. She was still into me by the end of the relationship but started feeling bad about my lack of attention to her, she called me out on it and I decided to break up with her.

Even though it was a good relationship I was no longer in "love" with her. I think once the novelty and honeymoon phase wears off we start seeing people more objectively.

Maybe I'm too cold but it wasn't too hard for me since I assume most LTRs are going to end anyways. I guess I learned that my standards for being happy in a LTR are high.

It really gives me a dilemma because I'm not usually a guy who "spins plates" once I enter an official relationship but I feel like in my mind these will always be "mini ltrs" where as a girl might think we actually have a future.
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#19
(05-28-2019, 01:17 AM)Shifty Wrote: Most people "check out" of a relationship way before it ends, usually women are the ones that check out but it actually happened to me.

...

Even though it was a good relationship I was no longer in "love" with her. I think once the novelty and honeymoon phase wears off we start seeing people more objectively.

This was very much me for the last year or two of my LTR. Between burying a close friend, my grandmother, having my pet diagnosed with a chronic, fatal illness, and the stress of being off from one job of 6 yrs., and rising quickly through the ranks at my current job, my mind had been clouded, busy, and depressed for a period of several years. The relationship was put on the backburner in my mind and I think she picked up on that. We called it quits in February, before Valentine's Day, so that saved me $50 or so, I figure.

I think you're right regarding the novelty and honeymoon phase. Suddenly, they're slightly less beautiful once we've fucked them, is my experience.
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#20
You main function to a woman in an LTR is as a protector and a provider, even if you are a FukBoi. LTR´s provide many good things in a man´s life, but it does not change the following.

You are not the priority in a woman´s life, you are merely one of the priorities.

It does not matter how accomplished you are, how much money you have, how good looking you are or that you have a high status in society. It does not matter if she has a 0-2 notch count before you (and is faithful to you), she is religious or has had religious schooling, it does not matter that her mother was a nurse, teacher or stay at home mother, that her father was a farmer, cowboy and an embodiment of masculinity. It does not matter that she is South American, Central American, Asian or African or Anglo-European. It does not matter that she cooks for you, cleans for you, has sex with you whenever you want, has low drama and is a good help-mate. These, by many standards, make a great woman…and they do exist.

You are not THE priority in her life, even if you are married to her. These are her priorities
1. Her children (if any)
2. Herself
3. Her mother
4. Her father (sometimes 3 and 4 are interchangeable)
5. Her sisters
6. Her brothers
7. You
8. Her friends.

Numbers 5-8 can vary, but this appears to be the most common. If she has no children, you are most likely the 4th or 5th priority in her life. Most probably you are number 7. This is not complaining, whining or lamenting, nor is saying that she is bad or wrong. This is because it is part of her nature (solipsistic, hypergamous, etc.)

This is simply another Red Pill.
Get busy living or get busy dying!
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