Article: Attraction inequality and the dating economy
#41
@DonFitz007 I pretty much agree. The only thing is, I think you're overestimating how much self-improvement the average guy is doing. The average frustrated chump is just that: pudgy, chumpy, and thoroughly committed to simping. 

BlackDragon said it best: Women hate monogamy. Their natural state is serial monogamy. They've also always been nauseated by simps. But in earlier eras, they depended on them for survival. Now they don't.

Men today are now strictly for entertainment purposes. Only the top 80 to 90 percent are good for that. The rest are obsolete. Their only chance is with morbidly obese women.

Top-tier men can get laid just fine, but they'd better not consider monogamy. That concept is dead and gone. It only ever worked (kind of) when women depended on men for survival.
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#42
This is also going to sound doom and gloom, but as the dating market - like any market - becomes more efficient over time, advantages that can be duplicated (Game, relocation, money, fitness, grooming, etc.) will erode, and only advantages that cannot be duplicated (genetics) will remain.

If there's a bright side, I'm not sure if that doesn't also hold true for women, though it sure doesn't seem like it.

At least we're not there yet entirely boys, so get while the getting's (relatively) good.

And who knows, maybe what seems to be the current trend will unexpectedly reverse.
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#43
(02-24-2020, 07:05 PM)zatara Wrote: ...

Is it a problem for some men to get laid? Sure. Is the dating market getting worse? Sure. But I've never once yet known a man whos in very good physical shape, whos dressed fashionably, and who has a good job, who can't get laid regularly. Working out 3-4 days a week for a year, dropping $1k on some stylish fitted clothes, and having a decent career are not hugely high bars to clear in the grand scheme of things.

I wonder the same thing.

For dating good enough women (i.e. those satisfying enough for a few rolls in the hay), you don't even need a good job if you have good energy levels, good attitude/vibe, a decent social circle, preselection, or a niche.

At least for short term flings (1 - 6 months).

Airwaves Wrote:This is also going to sound doom and gloom, but as the dating market - like any market - becomes more efficient over time, advantages that can be duplicated (Game, relocation, money, fitness, grooming, etc.) will erode, and only advantages that cannot be duplicated (genetics) will remain.

I don't believe the doom and gloom. Things may not be getting better, but I don't see things as particularly awful either.
  • It has always been challenging and unpredictable for most men in most circumstances in most eras to consistently land above average women.

  • The internet in theory may be able to efficiently spread what works, but a lot of perspective and 'imparted wisdom' is clouded by the attitudes, inclinations, flaws, and neuroses of influential writers — Exhibit A: the outsized influence of Roosh.

  • Even with all the knowledge and wisdom out there, most guys don't strike me as particularly motivated to improve their lot with women and the vast, vast majority are wrapped up in their own bad habits and fruitless thought patterns.

  • There are tons of advantages other than genetics where a reasonably intelligent and resourceful guy can get a leg up.

    Notably: having value and acknowledgement (e.g. popular venue owner/manager, band frontman, restauranteur, bartender at hot location, professor/instructor). You can see this phenomenon play out if you've ever seen a girl reject one guy for being too short and is drawn to another of the same height when he's recognized and got something going.

    I've alluded to this before in this thread — many aspects of 'lesser genetics' (but not dogshit) can be masked over in the right circumstances and a good number of 'average' men have been able to do a lot to position themselves more favorably over 'superior' specimens.

  • Tight game and the right attitude can't be easily duplicated.

    It takes a mixture of guts, guile, and savvy to have a woman eating out of your hand, and I'm not convinced that a meaningful number of guys can hear the song, let alone play the tune. I'm talking about guys who have 'a way with women' and not lifeless red pill masturbators.

  • Women are more sexually open and liberated.

    Traditionalists see this as a bad thing, but since I'm in the business of fucking fun girls and not delivering tedious sermons mourning the decadent state of society, I don't mind.
There's still plenty of ripe fruit out there and if you're out and about, the next one is just around the corner.
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#44
The main difference is the idea of 'access'. Tinder allows women to have access to men they previously wouldn't be able to interact with due to many social constraints. In a way, it's the great equalizer.

The simple concept of having access to the top tier of men makes them picky. It severely skews their perception of what is normal because they're focused solely on the most attractive.

You know this if you've been in a place and were one of the most attractive guys - you feel all eyes on you. Then some better looking guy comes and the attention dissipates.

Online (Tinder/IG whatever), that better looking guy who came in to the bar after you is always present. 

Women want what other women want so if you come across as desirable (and wanted by other women) then it automatically boosts you.

This happens online with followers on IG, quality of looks/social life/photos/bio/whatever on Tinder and of course, in real life by how you carry yourself, interact with the environment, are liked/well-received and most importantly, how other women are responding to you.

Women look at you, are attracted. They look at other women checking you out and this confirms their reasoning to be attracted to you and it amplifies.

This process is easier on Tinder because not only is it laid out but you have the full inventory of men available to you.


In a room of 10 women, where 4 of them are 8s and above, men will want to sleep with all 4. In a room of 10 men, where 4 of them are 8s and above, women will only want to sleep with the most attractive.

NB: Women like to believe they have a 'type' which the older I get, the more I believe it; it's a self fulfilling prophecy which is what they believe in but also based off their previous positive experiences.

Of course, a lot of the data is based off Tinder but it's a microcosm where the data is readily available.

I noticed I am similar, for example, when I was in a social setting and the hottest woman in the social group was there, I would flirt with her and ignore the 2nd most attractive. 

When the hottest one was absent, the 2nd most attractive would get my attention. It's happened to me too, where the 'de-facto top-of-the-food-chain' attractive bachelor was around, I wouldn't get the same amount of attention as when he was gone.

Instagram is pretty much the 'human stock market' of that article with your profile being your CV/stock price. I see a girl with 1k followers and she's a 9 vs a girl with 10k followers and an 8 - in my mind it would be kinda similar. 

With a woman however, the follower count matters way more for social proof and of course, 'women want what other women want' and many cognitive biases are in there:
  • herd effect/groupthink - what other women want/pre-selection -> these directly correlate and strengthen each other
  • overconfidence effect - the result of the likes and attention, inflating egos, self image (how they view themselves) and self esteem (how they feel about themselves)
  • availability heuristic - they think they have a chance with every top guy as he is on her phone, a DM away
  • illusory correlation - guys who are taking a lot of photos/adding content lead meaningful lives > guys who won't (irony)
  • loss aversion - traveling guys get to use this to their advantage, both on IG and Tinder 
  • confirmation bias - ignoring red flags in people and focusing on the cool shit they're doing because they are desirable
  • ingroup bias - you see this a lot with models and good looking people - they relate to other good looking people (like the secret society from back in the day)

These are maybe the majority of the ones I noticed, personally, between having Instagram and not having Instagram and it agrees with the article/translates into Tinder. Replace follower count with profile strength (especially if you end up on the Top Picks section).

It doesn't fully translate to real life however where my results have actually improved. I find the mysterious aspect of not having an online presence also helps me get laid but means I need to be more vulnerable with women so gain trust (which I prefer to having to contribute aspects of my life in a public domain).

As for looks matter debate:

They matter, online in so far as much as they set you apart for being attractive but that only gets you attention. Your profile needs to showcase the lifestyle that a woman can picture herself in or at the very least, excites her.

In real life, they definitely matter but they aren't as big of a factor as ugly guys lament over and good looking guys relish in.


Women on sex:

I also think a lot of guys in this thread misunderstand the importance of sex to a woman. Sex for women is not the same as sex for men. It's not about abundant sex or sex on tap.

Women who fuck a lot either have high sex drive (10% max) or are looking for validation (40%) or are looking for some proper sexual chemistry (50%).

They're not mutually exclusive but generally don't overlap.

An experienced player can get abundant sex but doesn't anymore because he recognizes ONS are poor quality sex and a time waste.


Don't read in to this, the gini coefficient of matches on tinder probably matches the 'gini coefficient' of how many women check you out in real life.

They all notice you before you notice them. By the above though, I mean how many make it obvious they noticed you (read: invite you non-verbally).

I would bet numbers of online and the eye test IRL match up pretty evenly.

The sex topic is a big one and requires me to elaborate in much more detail; what sex means to women.

tl;dr
  • Gini coefficient on dating apps probably is equal to gini coefficient of how many women check you out - not an accurate barometer of how much pussy you can slay
  • The information overload means that you're hearing about all the terrible stuff because the guys who are getting laid ain't talking about it or complaining. They're..... getting laid.
  • This shit only matters if online is your sole source of finding women but it's just 10% of available sources to you + not every single woman in on Tinder (I would say only 20%).

I have more thoughts, especially with how it compares to real life- the quality of women that I meet and open or perimeter me is way higher than Tinder/Bumble. 

It happened to me last night, two beautiful 21 year olds who were checking me out. Without going in to the details of how we started talking (and how I ended the conversation 20 seconds in to get back to what I was doing) the point here is that these women would probably NEVER match with me online.


That's because online reveals extra shit about you. Online ignores your non-verbals. Online doesn't put forth your best look. Online has only your name in her inbox with 2999 other guys whereas in real life, you are present and none of those guys exist.

The list goes on and on and on.....

Don't let this shit bother you, women barely know what they want as it is.
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#45
I think Dave Chappelle summed up it on one of his skits when, as a game show host, he asked the contestants, "Is pimping easy?"

[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/oDcA9BIB_NQ?t=242[/video]

First few answers: No
Dave: That is correct.

Last answer: Hell yeah
Dave: Somehow that is correct.
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#46
I've banged hot college chicks, 19 or 20 yr, every year going back to 2013, different ones mostly white but also Latino and Asian. All smart, many sorority girls, most were kinky, all had very fit bodies save one who had a truly gorgeous face and great ass, all were submissive. All 20+ years younger than me my record is 26 years and I'll break that at some point this year. None were ONS, all we met multiple times usually at least 5+ for sex, some we banged for over 6 months. There are 21 yr old college girls/grads I've been nailing for years. I've pulled strippers 19-21 as well. Currently banging one 24 years younger.

The poster above had it right: The sky is not falling. Be in shape, be successful, dress well, Have good pics, have average to above-average Game. Put yourself out there IRL and online. Travel.
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#47
(03-03-2020, 10:56 PM)donnygately Wrote: I've banged hot college chicks, 19 or 20 yr, every year going back to 2013, different ones mostly white but also Latino and Asian. All smart, many sorority girls, most were kinky, all had very fit bodies save one who had a truly gorgeous face and great ass, all were submissive. All 20+ years younger than me my record is 26 years and I'll break that at some point this year. None were ONS, all we met multiple times usually at least 5+ for sex, some we banged for over 6 months. There are 21 yr old college girls/grads I've been nailing for years. I've pulled strippers 19-21 as well. Currently banging one 24 years younger.

The poster above had it right:  The sky is not falling. Be in shape, be successful, dress well, Have good pics, have average to above-average Game. Put yourself out there IRL and online. Travel.

Are you particularly good-looking? Strong jawline?
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#48
(03-04-2020, 02:50 AM)WombRaider Wrote:
(03-03-2020, 10:56 PM)donnygately Wrote: I've banged hot college chicks, 19 or 20 yr, every year going back to 2013, different ones mostly white but also Latino and Asian. All smart, many sorority girls, most were kinky, all had very fit bodies save one who had a truly gorgeous face and great ass, all were submissive. All 20+ years younger than me my record is 26 years and I'll break that at some point this year. None were ONS, all we met multiple times usually at least 5+ for sex, some we banged for over 6 months. There are 21 yr old college girls/grads I've been nailing for years. I've pulled strippers 19-21 as well. Currently banging one 24 years younger.

The poster above had it right:  The sky is not falling. Be in shape, be successful, dress well, Have good pics, have average to above-average Game. Put yourself out there IRL and online. Travel.

Are you particularly good-looking? Strong jawline?

no, just a regular guy

[Image: 57164.png?credit_id=12032]
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#49
(03-03-2020, 10:56 PM)donnygately Wrote: I've banged hot college chicks, 19 or 20 yr, every year going back to 2013, different ones mostly white but also Latino and Asian. All smart, many sorority girls, most were kinky, all had very fit bodies save one who had a truly gorgeous face and great ass, all were submissive. All 20+ years younger than me my record is 26 years and I'll break that at some point this year. None were ONS, all we met multiple times usually at least 5+ for sex, some we banged for over 6 months. There are 21 yr old college girls/grads I've been nailing for years. I've pulled strippers 19-21 as well. Currently banging one 24 years younger.

The poster above had it right:  The sky is not falling. Be in shape, be successful, dress well, Have good pics, have average to above-average Game. Put yourself out there IRL and online. Travel.

[Image: 32821431359061.jpg]
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#50
(03-03-2020, 10:56 PM)donnygately Wrote: I've banged hot college chicks, 19 or 20 yr, every year going back to 2013, different ones mostly white but also Latino and Asian. All smart, many sorority girls, most were kinky, all had very fit bodies save one who had a truly gorgeous face and great ass, all were submissive. All 20+ years younger than me my record is 26 years and I'll break that at some point this year. None were ONS, all we met multiple times usually at least 5+ for sex, some we banged for over 6 months. There are 21 yr old college girls/grads I've been nailing for years. I've pulled strippers 19-21 as well. Currently banging one 24 years younger.

The poster above had it right:  The sky is not falling. Be in shape, be successful, dress well, Have good pics, have average to above-average Game. Put yourself out there IRL and online. Travel.

9 inch cock?
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#51
(03-03-2020, 10:56 PM)donnygately Wrote: I've banged hot college chicks, 19 or 20 yr, every year going back to 2013, different ones mostly white but also Latino and Asian. All smart, many sorority girls, most were kinky, all had very fit bodies save one who had a truly gorgeous face and great ass, all were submissive. All 20+ years younger than me my record is 26 years and I'll break that at some point this year. None were ONS, all we met multiple times usually at least 5+ for sex, some we banged for over 6 months. There are 21 yr old college girls/grads I've been nailing for years. I've pulled strippers 19-21 as well. Currently banging one 24 years younger.

The poster above had it right:  The sky is not falling. Be in shape, be successful, dress well, Have good pics, have average to above-average Game. Put yourself out there IRL and online. Travel.

And all my friends are doing the same ...

[Image: ea0.jpg]
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#52
Above-average looks but not especially so, and no Viking jawline but it's solid. I do have a great smile which is something everyone can practice, you don't want to be gaming with a Jeopardy James grimace. But the older man fetish is real and it's spectacular.

I'm not sure I'd even want a 9-inch cock. -- Hi Suits! I'm the same guy giving the same advice here as I did the other place for years. Trying to get better, and help guys avoid self-limiting beliefs and get them to dress better.

If you want access it helps to live in a big city or a college town with large undergrad population. I've done both and I've got the receipts. I'm sure it's easier to pickup in NYC, Miami, Houston, etc to find hot, early 20s girls than where many of you may live. I don't even think my Game is above intermediate status.

Womb - I agree with you on the serial monogamy and I'm taking advantage of that trait. I'd guess many of these college girls are going through at least 1-2 BFs a year and also banging guys during summer [and some winter] break. Some of them like a guy that can get them something besides a hard seltzer & slice of pizza on a Sat nite date.
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