Real fucking game thread
It's weird when guys want to "retire from the game" before they've even hit 30. I'm not sure what they think is so glorious about being married (or MGTOW) at such a young age. I know guys in their 40s who don't even want a steady girlfriend because they see how it turned their friends into house cats. I barely could run game when I was 23. Some guy asked me to "wing him" in college, I asked "what's a wing", I didn't know what the fuck that meant. It was embarrassing, but I still met girls in IRL not even going to bars. Then I meet a lot of 20 year olds in college today and they aren't doing shit without social media and swipe apps. Fuck that shit, open your mouth and talk to a girl in class!

My theory about these guys is they've burned themselves out on social media and swipe apps. They've rarely been able to make things happen IRL with chicks and they've tried to play the game in a modern way. This is a losing proposition. Trying to play the game every other guy is playing on Tinder or Instagram is going to be basically a job in itself and it's an arms race to get attention from attention whores. It's not fun either. I've played around on swipe apps myself. The thing that's notable is I get way more of a testosterone boost with my real life dating than my swipe app dating even where bangs are happening. There's always a bit of anxiety when I setup a date with a chick I met on Tinder and usually, the date ends up to be disappointing (cat fish or the chick is weird).

My best stories dating are always chicks I score from day and night game because that was me putting my best self forward and doing what few guys will do by opening a chick during the day. Dating tech and social media is the enemy to game and you will never burn out on real life prospects.

Don't get me started on "pipelining", this has only been a thing in recent years. If you're visiting a new city or country, isn't it the least spontaneous thing in the world to have your whole schedule booked up by swipe app dates? Why not try to wander about and get into trouble approaching girls IRL? Online dating tells you nothing about the scene, it's an alternate reality.
Good point. I don't do any nightgame and very little daygame. I think my last daygame bang was back in July. I'll try more of it and see if I still feel the same way. Maybe online bullshit is causing the attitude i have.
Or its just you. Your choices. Your views on reality. :-)
(11-25-2019, 02:46 AM)blackfriar Wrote: Or its just you.  Your choices.  Your views on reality.  :-)

God bless the haters, lets me know I'm doing something right. Reality is reality Bud, and the reality is you post in this thread every time I do. The reality is you add nothing, and I put my soul out there. The reality is I can't take a shit here without you smelling it and telling the world how bad it is. If I'm shit, you're a fly buzzing around it. I suggest you get your shit together or find someone else to buzz around. I'm not popular or smart enough to warrant your bile and venom friend. The big internet take down won't be so big even if you can manage it. The internet points you get will pay out a lot less than you think they will. Go fuck some girls, friend. Think of me while you do it. And you can keep the ironic smiley faces where you keep your women, far away and fucking with some other man
Well if you don't do daygame or nightgame how do you expect to find a high-value wife? Not through swiping imo.

I didn't say settle for 30+, I feel the opposite way, but if you want a wife there's so many out there.

Why I didn't get married, let's see, serious relationship at 23, nah, at 25, nah, single in Manhattan at 26-33 again thought about it but nah and 1) had serious issues outside the bedroom and 2) had issues in the bedroom, catholic guilt and what not. Since I hit my late 30s years ago I've done better and better with women and gotten hotter and hotter younger and submissive/kinky women. Find your niche.

As to why I didn't marry a 20-yr old, I feel like that question answers itself. Although she really did love me and if I had to choose I would have picked her, but I didn't love her. Sexy, submissive, sweet, funny, ultra-kinky, good work ethic, pretty face, loves the beach and being active. But I wasn't ready to settle down then and I'm not now. If I want to settle down in 2-3 years there's the model I've been banging for 2+ years who's faithful to me who'll still be in her mid-20s then. I'm in no rush and may be happy being single forever. She's everything the 20-yr was but better body and less kinky and younger today. And over winter break I guarantee you I can find a new, hot, submissive 19-20yr old who fucks like a mink and loves giving head, or even, gasp a 24-yr old.
(11-26-2019, 09:57 PM)donnygately Wrote: Well if you don't do daygame or nightgame how do you expect to find a high-value wife? Not through swiping imo.

I didn't say settle for 30+, I feel the opposite way, but if you want a wife there's so many out there.

Why I didn't get married, let's see, serious relationship at 23, nah, at 25, nah, single in Manhattan at 26-33 again thought about it but nah and 1) had serious issues outside the bedroom and 2) had issues in the bedroom, catholic guilt and what not. Since I hit my late 30s years ago I've done better and better with women and gotten hotter and hotter younger and submissive/kinky women. Find your niche.

As to why I didn't marry a 20-yr old, I feel like that question answers itself. Although she really did love me and if I had to choose I would have picked her, but I didn't love her. Sexy, submissive, sweet, funny, ultra-kinky, good work ethic, pretty face, loves the beach and being active. But I wasn't ready to settle down then and I'm not now. If I want to settle down in 2-3 years there's the model I've been banging for 2+ years who's faithful to me who'll still be in her mid-20s then. I'm in no rush and may be happy being single forever. She's everything the 20-yr was but better body and less kinky and younger today. And over winter break I guarantee you I can find a new, hot, submissive 19-20yr old who fucks like a mink and loves giving head, or even, gasp a 24-yr old.

How old are you? How are you getting all these young women? Are you particularly good-looking?
Mid-40s. Practice, practice, practice - live in/near a big city, go out a lot, be very well-dressed. No, tall however, in reasonable shape but not ripped.

You get them with Game. But not with self-limiting beliefs. Rough #s I'd say my conversion rate is 50% from online text where we're both supposedly interested to IRL, and 50% to bang using round numbers. College girls really dig older guys no matter what anyone who fails at this tells you.

Probably the most important thing I've gotten better at is identifying Yes Girls and time-wasters. Always double-book in case she flakes.
You're right Donny. Swiping ain't the way. Tell me more. When you go out how do you do it?
Here's some real game: Be a good person and you'll get a good girl. 

I didn't watch that video she's probably getting dick on the side though

Flakes/how to avoid them/restarts

Men say "flake" with disdain usually, like it's some sort of crime. I strongly encourage everyone here to not take it personally. I get butthurt from time to time too, but it does no use either way. You getting butthurt and trying some whole guilt game on some flakey hoe will not do you any good. Lets get on to  how to avoid them. 

There are essentially 3 reasons a girl will flake on you. Well, more like 1 and X.  All "dates" or invites exist in a kind of spectrum. You have your 'coffee date' which is just about the lowest pressure thing you can do, it's also some chump shit. Then you have your 'netflix and chill' (or girl coming to your house), which basically means you're fucking and it's actually a lot of pressure on the girl. Escalating a coffee date is a lot harder than escalating netflix and chill. Low pressure invites will essentially have a much lower flake rate (unless they are really fucking lame, fuck i might flake on a girl coffee date honestly) and higher pressure invites will have a higher flake rate if all variables are the same. How do you stop it?

Short answer, it will always happen to some extent. Long answer; You have comfort and you have attraction. Attraction can absolutely over-rule comfort but comfort rarely over-rules attraction when it comes to banging. Example: Strange handsome man that's attractive to women hits on a girl with a boyfriend - well, she might go with him, but despite what some manosphere dudes say there's a solid chance she won't from the get-go, dude has to at least build some comfort. Example of low attraction high comfort, beta guy is friendzoned and goes out drinking with female "friend". Real low chance he's getting that ass, there's no attraction to build(reveal or unlayer is more accurate, it's hard to "build" attraction).

Somewhere in the comfort vs attraction spectrum is how everyone gets laid in serious game, there are exceptions but I'm not fucking explaining them. Ask whoremongers, or some place where societal pressure for women still exists in men favor. Anyway


 For me, comfort is the most easy thing to build. I'm incredibly good at this. Random strangers tell me their life stories, girls will tell me their darkest most perverted secrets in hours of meeting me, I used to run con games on tourists when I was a dirty little street urchin many years ago. The easiest way to build a comfort and rapport is being funny. Humor is a honest signal of intelligence most of the time, it's a quick and easy way to build rapport but its only one part of the equation.

Showing vulnerability is the next part of the puzzle. I'll try not to go off on tangents about vulnerability vs weakness but if you're getting "awes" from girls you're usually doing it wrong. People love light flaws or quirks, people fucking hate weakness. Something I like to do is tell a mildly embarrassing story. Now if you tell an embarrassing story you're probably going to get an attraction penalty, as in lose some. It's either through stripping the mystery from yourself, or showing that you're not as tough/grizzled/worldly/mysterious as they think you might be. That's why it's always a good strategy to tell a story that implement some DHV with that embarrassing story. Example; My drunk friend passed out after he fought a guy, shit himself, and passed out. I helped him up, got shit all over myself, and then when he came to he hit me in the face that's how I got this scar. Embarassing? Yeah a little, but it also shows honesty, integrity, loyalty, and if you tell it well (unlike my paraphrasing above) through being a good story teller people (not just women) will be more drawn to you. It also builds your rapport, people feel like they know you better. On to that now

Rapport. Someone is comfortable when they feel like they know you. Quick inside jokes make them feel that. Fun stories makes that happen. And even if you're not great at game just talking with someone for a long enough period of time will build Rapport (don't fuck it up game). This can be accelerated with humor, vulnerability, and the intensity of your interactions. For the darker minded beings here, trauma and stress build up comfort faster than just about anything else. Wanna get someone real comfortable with you? Get in a car crash with them. Fight someone with them. Do a crime together. Or for the more machiavellian, manufacture those experiences. Careful friends, that's not a road for the uninitiated and we're not going to get into that now.  Things like that generally don't just build comfort though they build a strong, strong bond. Comfort probably isn't the right word but it definitely comes with the territory.

Now watch the fuck out. Too much comfort is BAD. Low attraction high comfort is where friendzones happen. You get comments like "he's like a brother to me", girls agree to go out to a drink with you and when you escalate they act all fucking weird. Or they just plain flake on you because at the last second they realize it was a 'date' instead of a 'friend hang' or whatever the fuck people call it nowadays.

Without comfort though women's flake rate will be through THE FUCKING ROOF. You are just not getting a girl out that's uncomfortable with you unless she's a non risk avoidance person (most women aren't), she's incredibly horny all the time (most women aren't), or essentially she's a high testosterone type of woman (as the last two implied), hormones are real.


This part mr Dog is not so good at but he will try. Attraction is hard to 'build'. I think the term 'reveal' or 'unravel' or 'unlayer' might be better. On the front end from when you meet a girl to when you try to bust on her face you just aren't going to get more physically handsome. I mean I guess you could have a 8-pack and only wear baggy sweaters all the time and by the time you get your shirt off at home she could want to suck your dick. Or I guess you could get her drunk and she will lower her standards, but physically you'll be the same guy. Definitely work out, definitely take care of yourself, but that's not what I'm going to talk about. Luckily, physicality is not all that women find attractive so we; or at least mr. Dog is in luck. Thank your deity of choice you weren't born a woman every single day for this.

Intelligence. Women find intelligence attractive, again despite what a lot of the manosphere might say they do, just not how most men think of it. We covered one way of showing it above which is humor, it's an honest signal at some kind of intelligence. The next is social savvy. If everyone has a good opinion of you, it's attractive and it creates less pressure to "not fuck with that guy". The other is performance, which will get you more money, but more than that women like guys who are good at shit. I have theories as to why but that's just the way it is. If your performance is social and status getting the more the better. Also just as a bonus, if you find a legitimately intelligent woman showing that you are as intelligent or more intelligent than her will flip a certain little switch but don't overdo it, it's not that big of a deal but it can be a little bit of an emotional hook because smart bitches are rare and they feel completely alone all of the time because girls are usually average and guys are scared of them. I have made, and still make the serious mistake of getting into a serious cerebral discussion with women. It's not panty wetting. I do it because I like it, I'm a fiend for smart women and I enjoy a smart and good natured one's conversation generally more than sex. And that's usually all I get. DO NOT overdo the cerebral intelligent conversation if you want to get laid, I REPEAT, DO NOT TALK ABOUT PHYSICS, PLATO, PSYCHOLOGY, ETC cerebrally and non-emotionally with women before you STICK IT IN HER VAGINA AND NUT ON HER FACE. DO NOT.

Risk taking behaviour. Testosterone, you know that chemical that basically makes you act more manly. Well high testosterone correlates with risk taking behaviour, which correlates with either fucking up massively and dying like a retard or getting all the girls wet. This is the "bad boy" juice you hear so much about. You don't need to overdo it. I see this as more as a Boolean function rather than one that's rated on a spectrum; but like everything it does exist on a spectrum I just think there are diminishing returns. Jumping off that cliff into the water is only slightly more likely to get that girl wet than making that joke at someone important's expense and making everyone laugh. There are all types of risks you can take and what I really have to say about this subject that I will try to get into at another time is this; take risks where you win both ways, on the failure condition and on the success condition. Anyway, smoking, drinking, being an asshole, talking shit, getting into fights, asserting dominance all are risky endeavours and usually they get women wet. This is attractive to women but you have to show it to them or else they won't know you're the shit, right? Makes sense?  We're not "building" attraction we're showing women that we are attractive. Anyway next one

Mystery. Ohhh Mystery. Any time I hear a girl call me 'mysterious' I know I can do just about anything I want with that bitch. There's only about one sweeter thing to hear which is "we're not having sex tonight", in my player and god knows what else career a girl has meant it exactly once, and I'm pretty sure it's because I fucked the interaction up. Getting off subject. Girls are funny creatures, people are really. When they don't know something they fill in the blanks and if you're already a little attractive they fill in the blanks with more attractive shit. Unfortunately for how attractive mystery is, it's just about the anti-thesis to comfort. And you can't control it as easily because once it's gone, it's gone. Use it as your hole card when you need to amp up attraction, try not to give it away by telling someone your life story. Maintaining mystery is basically just not spilling your fucking guts every time someone asks you a question. Also not fitting a personality archetype that pretty much everyone recognizes, standing out from the crowd at least a little bit in unique and curious ways. Using mystery is probably the best part, once you arrive with it you can shape the interaction however you'd like. Now you can play a part, the part of the lover preferably. I used to tell girls I was a criminal and nothing more when they asked what i did. I used to tell girls weird fucking shit I'd hear in a movie ; she'd say "You're scared huh" "I'm not afraid, I know exactly how I will die. I saw it in a dream".  Shit tests become fun and easy when you have it. "we're not having sex" retort "Good, I don't think I can do it again today anyway" on a first date. "Oh that scar, I'd tell you but you wouldn't be able to handle it". Sounds fucking corny as fuck right? Well it is, but it works when they're attracted a little and you're mysterious. I don't advice saying shit like that because it's cornball as hell, and it can really backfire with the wrong vibe. The only reason I do is because I find it entertaining and sometimes I have the right vibe for it.

Anyway, mystery is usually a huge reason you're going to get her out in the first place. She doesn't know how much of a fucker you are and she's hoping for the best and filling in the blanks.

Comfort and attraction mix

Every girl requires a different little mix of attraction and comfort. Risk averse girls will require a lot more comfort and you'll know them by there hobbies, interests, and the way the speak. Less risk averse girls need more attraction and you'll know them by them being sluts. Having the right mix with the right girls is how you don't get flaked on. Ideally if you do it right the girl should be excited about you as a prospect and chasing you. A lukewarm girl might do whatever you invited her. A cold girl is probably gonna flake.

Other reasons for flaking
Don't you worry your pretty little head. There are too many other fucking reasons. Her cat died, her grandma called her a dumb bitch, her dad was mean to her, her friend is having a baby, her friend thinks you're a lame, her ex is banging her again, another man hit her up. It really doesn't matter in the end man. The only thing that matters is SHE values YOU less than whatever the fuck she could be doing. If you're confident you put in the correct work and had good game just don't worry about it.

What to do with a flake
Her opportunity to have you chase should be pretty much completely over. You need to spend your time gaming those other girls in your roster, you do have them, right? Don't chase after a girl flakes, ideally she should've been chasing you by now anyway. Flaking is disrespect any way you cut it and if you let her disrespect you you're setting a really bad precedent. DON'T BE SALTY EITHER. Yeah, you old cow. Don't be salty. Don't "punish" a girl for flaking. Don't fling emotional abuse her way. Be graceful, motherfucker. Be graceful but firm. You don't care because she doesn't matter just like you don't matter to her. THE MOST, THEEEE MOST i will do to let a girl redeem herself is the following - "I totally understand. Life gets crazy. You seem like a X(nice,fun,cool) girl but you're going to have to invite me to do something next time". And if she does, bam, she's chasing you. If she doesn't, fuck it, you should be on to the next by now. Remember that win-win situation shit i was talking about earlier, that's one way to play one.


Almost never works, at least not for Mr. Dog. I've probably had I don't know. I'd say about 100-150 girls flake on me in my time. Much less in recent years but. I've restarted around 50. I think I got a bang out of maybe 1 or 2 of those.

Quick text
"Sure, don't forget those red heels" - she'll say "What", you'll say "Oh haha wrong number how have you been" - DHV, you're fucking other girls she's missing out on a great time with you.
"I had a dream about you"  - She'll say "Oh?" - and you'll go on to tell a masterfully crafted intrguing cryptic story that frames you as the lover and her as a chaser - it's pretty chumpish but it gives you an opportunity to tell a cryptic and intriguing story. I don't know, go read some russian novels they're great at embedded symbolism and shit or read jung or something.
[non sequitur] ex. "the left turn scraped my car till i got out" ex. "flawless, that old dinosaur never kicked iron like that before" - and again she'll say "what" and you'll go on to tell her a story about how you were really drunk, got in a fight, whatever just show some fucking DHV and vulnerability. You texted her on accident in a daze, whatever make shit up you know the damn score.

All in all this shit doesn't work that well for me. Usually if I fuck up an interaction and girl flakes it's because i REALLY fucked that up. I used waaaay too much of my leverage way too fast, gambled on a silly risk and lost, etc. Maybe the better adjusted among you will have more luck.

Anyway, don't sweat the flakes. I've had 2 in the past 3 days. Those are the first 2 flakes I've had in 2 years believe it or not. I must be off my game. 1 was a girl from work way under my SMV that I had only (and stupidly) planned on fucking anyway. The other was a JAP from Tinder who was legitimately with her parents when I called her and tried to get her to come over to fuck. Her mom convinced her it was better to meet me in a public place. All in all bad game and bad decisions all around and that's completely on me. 

Good luck players
Win-win situations

Let's get into this. I will never be able to explain this thoroughly because it's such a goddamn mind fuck to me still. I think this is more of a mentality than a general strategy but there are elements of both in everything you do. In life always try to put yourself in situations where you can't lose. Have the top 5 outcomes benefit yourself.

Being self entertained

This by far is one of the most valuable things to gaming women, at least to me. You do everything because you like to do it right? You're a real man right? You shouldn't do anything that you don't like to do. Life is too short and it is passing you by, by the day, the hour, the minute; year by year. If you're going to be a player you should be a player because you love women. Ironically, this is where I see A LOT of men fuck up. They have this horrible opinion of women and they think they're evil. And I want to get this out of the way before we go any further. Women, for all their flaws are beautiful elegant little creatures. They have an amazing capacity for love, beauty, intelligence, raising children, keeping a house, making you feel like the man that you are. They also piss, shit, cheat, steal, and lie. And they will never be like you, they will never be a man. I once had a co-worker that was into redpill stuff, he said to me once "and man, once you learn this all about women. Do you really like them? How can you live with the fact they do all this horrible shit". All I had to say was "Look, women are nuanced. I love each and every one of them. If i wanted a man, I would be fucking gay". That's what I have to say about all that. There's a duality to humanity that you have to become okay with eventually and if you think men are by default better; you're wrong. Now men as a whole I think are better, and at the very least have the capacity to be better. Check out this IQ graph, I think this represents more than IQ but capacity for greatness as well. You'll see men exist far outside the mean in both directions.

So being self entertained is a win-win situation. If you bang the girl good for you, you get some dick pleasure and possibly a cool intimate connection with another female human being. Goes without saying. If you don't bang the girl? You should at the very least enjoy your interaction. You might even learn something about yourself, or about humans, or just have a plain ol good time. You should be selfish, you should make yourself laugh FIRST. This is not a people pleasing mentality and this is how you win friends and influence people, or you make enemies. People are incredibly drawn to this type of behaviour. Don't be afraid of making enemies, most great people do. Do make yourself laugh. Do you know how many people will laugh at jokes they don't understand? People like laughing, people are drawn to people that have a good time and entertain themselves and others. This also creates a win-win situation. You can't always control the outcome, life is crazy. YOU CAN control your own enjoyment of a situation.

I'm not saying become completely outcome independent. This shit is for the birds, I never believed in it. How are you supposed to get what you want if you don't shoot for it. Silly to me. But I am saying enjoy the process. Think about this; every day above ground is a good day. There are two great tragedies in life: the first is wanting for something you can't get, this 2nd is getting it. We live most of our lives between those two points, enjoy the process. Make yourself laugh and people will laugh. Enjoy the stupid little shit tests she gives you; it actually means she fucking likes you so enjoy that. 


The difference between a horrible failure that makes you want to kill yourself and a learning experience that makes you a better man is your mentality. Some may call this mental gymnastics and I would actually be inclined to agree. Remain objective, you're a man after all. I choose to remain objective and get negative sometimes and it doesn't make me any happier. Sometimes I choose to reframe my failures, both have value. But mental gymnastics or not it doesn't make reframing not useful. Lets talk about some examples

If you read my posts sometimes I will reference a specific shit test that almost all females will give you at some point from when you start dating her to when you're in a full on LTR. It's the one where a girl tells you about guys hitting on her. And I always pretty much retort with "good, tell him from me he can have you. Tell him 'please take her away from me'". The the reason this is not just game but a win-win situation is I fucking mean it. I mean that shit deep down in my heart and soul and the girl when I tell her this she KNOWS it. The reason why it's win win?

You pass the shit tests, she likes/loves you even more. Good job. This is the most common outcome so it's both successful and useful.

You fail the shit test. She thinks you don't value her, she goes underappreciated and it leads to resentment  and maybe that guy at work, or another guy she wouldn't even tell you about gets her to cheat, takes her, or plain takes her away. Fucking good! That bitch was gonna do that shit anyway and you should be happy she's out of your life. This shit test is actually disrespectful as fuck in the first place, she has no right to fuck with you like that, and if she acts on it THATS ON HER. That makes her a bad person my man, and if you ever take a woman seriously so help me god I'll slap you in the face myself. She just did you one of the biggest favors in your life, she got the fuck out because she's garbage. You don't keep garbage around do you? Don't you wish it would take itself out? She DID! This is a good thing. Win-win.

You can choose to look at things in numerous ways. One of them is "how dare this bitch threaten me with another man, what a cunt" and the other is "I hope she means what she's saying because that would be doing me a huge fucking favor. This bitch is a pain in the ass anyways". And one more is you're a bitch of a man because you let some chump take your woman, figure it out, what would you rather think?

One more and I've had this happen before more than a few times if I'm being honest. Alright; You're casually seeing a girl, you've fucked her before. You're in that kind of whatever stage before you either make her a mainstay plate, ltr her up, or whatever. You reach out to you because you're horny, you miss her, you want her, whatever the fuck; You know whatever reason you fuck with women, you love em right?

She comes over, you bang, you have a fun time. Good job, if you're on your game this will most likely happen.

 She says "I'm really busy right now, i can't". Aww you're not fucking your first choice tonight, poor you. You might not be fucking at all. Did you notice how she didn't do the good girl thing and give an alternative? Did you notice how she didn't even really say what she was doing? This is your sign from god and this bitch that she's probably not the one for you pal. Thank her, she just saved you a potential life time of trouble. Do you know how bad that shit sucks when you need a girl and she ain't there? Do you know how bad it sucks when she has your children, you're married in California and this bitch will financially rape you after a sexless marriage. Thank her, she just gave you a sign that she's either not that into you, an inconsiderate bitch that doesn't know how to keep a man satisfied and doesn't care, or just leads a lifestyle that's not conducive to your needs. This is a win for you because you got a sign and you got a sign early on that she's not that great for you.

Strategical win-win situations

Now beyond the mental there are actual strategic positions you can put yourself in. If you don't understand this you need to play more chess and preferably against someone that is good. It's mid-game you throw you knight out into the field, if your opponent doesn't take it then it wreaks havoc on the opposing forces. If your opponent takes it it clears the field for your rook to wreak havoc on your opponents pieces. This is a win-win situation for you and it's actually key to winning the game, however it takes a lot of setup. This is the cerebral part of game. Let's go into examples.

I've done this one before and it's actually how I met one of my LTRS a few years ago. You're spinning plates, you're a player right? You got 2 girls on deck  and a date lined up for later. First girl comes over, you have fun but she's on her period and for whatever reason and you either don't want to fuck her or she doesn't. Whatever you have a great time because you love women and you're self entertained right? Alright so she leaves and you call girl two to come over but only on the condition she helps you clean your house. She comes over, you bang, you clean, you bang whatever the house is spic and span. She says she wants to stay over.

Now you have a choice. You let her stay over and skip your date and have a good time with a guarantee for sex and fun. Or you can make her leave and go on your date. So here's what you do. You set it up that you might call her later because you're not sure how long you're going to spend with your "mom" or whatever lie it is. Bang her out another time to show you care. Send her on your way and go on your date knowing that your pad is clean to take home the girl and if she flakes or you fail at seducing her you have girl #2 ready to come over to fuck and have a drink with you.

Here's what you've accomplished. You spent quality time with girl 1 so she's probably coming back. You got your nuts drained and house cleaned by girl 2, which has actually made her more invested by helping you so she automatically likes you more for that investment (sunk cost fallacy, look it up). You're not nervous about your date because you've had plenty of female adoration and sex so you're definitely going to perform better socially and sexually with date girl, and if you don't or she's lame you have a backup with girl 2. Your house is clean so you got a place to bring back your date and impress her. All that, good job you can't fucking lose. And if it all goes to shit? Back to reframing.

The most obvious one is book a date with 2-3 different girls at the same time and have a backup plan with your boys. All girls won't likely flake, you're probably going on a date with one of them. If they do flake though, fuck it go kick it with your boys! This is a win-win.

You're starting to get more serious with a lady but you're still banging other girls. You tell her the truth.

She's okay with it, good job. She's happy to have you and more attracted to you because you're a successful man. Maybe this girl has 3some potential idk.

She hates it and threatens to never see you again if you don't drop your hoes. You now have a solid read on the situation and know exactly what kind of jealousy you're dealing with. You can now proceed the best way available.

Anyway that's all I got for win-wins. I'm still working on this myself but I hope ya'll get the idea.

Good luck players.

Escalation is about getting to hello to fucking. The difference between you fucking a girl that you met in science class, on the street, or at work is the proficiency in escalation. The dirty little secret that nobody will tell you is that there's no set amount of steps that will get you there. A lot of write ups you will see you'll start in the scene of the girl back at your house, or at her house, or maybe even in a bar if the writer is being brave. Escalation is game, the set of steps you go through is almost immaterial. So let's go over it.

The start

Qualify the situation that you're in. You need to gauge where you're at. The first step of escalation is saying hello. You're making a big step from going to being an unknown unknown to being a known unknown. You will never fuck a girl without having access, it's a relatively simple concept. That is the first step of escalation. The way you qualify the girl or the way you qualify yourself. Set the frame, make it a man to woman interaction. The difference between a neutral neutral interaction and a man to woman interaction is polarization. 

As a side note it is better to be loved and hated by many, than to be forgotten by everyone. There is a fine line between love and hate.

People are afraid of polarization. In general people seek to be neutral because they will not be loved or hated. The fact of game is you have to be polarizing in order to get prime vagina. A non polarizing interaction is "hello, how are you doing" a slightly more polarizing interaction is "hello, you're beautiful" a more polarizing interaction is "hello, you're beautiful, but show me something else". These are not good lines, just examples. In game we're always seeking to show the polarization between the masculine and the feminine. That is the nature of attraction and game is revealing it. It's a fine balance between "palatable" and "fuck you". You want to be on the "fuck you" side without actually going to "fuck you". There's a fine line between love and hate, and the antithesis is apathy. If you're getting apathy, move on.

The middle

You're getting along with a girl in whatever setting. The first step of escalation is breaking the physical barrier. Make her laugh and touch her back. Read her body language. If it's bad back off. If it's good keep on the path of escalation. Bad body language should be intuitive; despite your intentions you should look at the situation objectively. Reeling, grimacing, pulling away; these are bad - this means she doesn't like you that much. Body language never lies. Pulling in, smiling, openness this is good, this is a green light.

After making her laugh and touching her back it's time to touch the more erogenous zones. Hands, thighs, legs, head/neck. If at any time you grab the back of a girls neck with a very light touch and she smiles you are fucking. If you place your hand on your thigh and she doesn't pull away this is a good sign. If you touch her leg and her body language is good then you are doing well. If you touch her thighs playfully and she doesn't reel then you have a good situation. If you grab a woman's hand and she doesn't show bad body language she is open to more.


Women test you. The test relentlessly and they test often. They don't do it because they are evil they do it because they are socially intelligent. Take a page from the woman's book here. You should be testing for things always. Test for compliance by giving commands. Test for physicality by touching. Test for sexuality by moving with her or better getting her to move with  you. Test for intelligence by mentioning complex subject matter in conversation. Test for emotional inntelligence by presenting scenarios. Test test test. Don't avoid it, it's not feminine behaviour, it's logical. You want to know what a girl is capable of and you want to know her mentality.The more you test and the more she passes the more she'll move into your frame By these metrics you'll know how far to escalate.

self actualization
Know yourself. This is the key to knowing others. If you don't know yourself you are completely lost. If you know yourself you have somewhere to start. All this game talk is completely worthless if you don't know who you are and what you want. Who are you are; and what you want. Useless if you don't know that. Do you want to fuck a slut for night? Do you want to find your wife? Do you know if you want a short term fling? Know what you want. If you're a strong person and you believe and know yourself other people will form around you. It's hard to describe but i found this worth mentioning.

more escalation

Body language is really hard to teach. Body language is the vast majority of the escalation process. If you're unitiatied in body language and tone the best thing you can do is a series of tests. I would do it in this order.

1. Grab her hand. 
-Good response - forward
-Bad response - evaluate what's going on, stay put

2. . Move closer.
- Does she embrace it. Keep goign
- does she reel away, evaluate what's going on, stay put she doesn't like you that much yet

3. Go for a kiss
- Good kiss, you'll feel it, green light. Move to makeout
- Reels away, you're burnt. Abandon ship or part gracefully. Freeze out for a bit go back to building rapport and comfort.

4. Making things more sexual.
-Grab at her thighs, move her body, push her somewhere. Smiling, good reaction. Green light.
-Grab her thighs, she pulls away, she's gives an excuse, you need to work on comfort if you've got this far. She doesn't trust you, or she doesn't like you, the rapport isn't there. You fucked up somewhere or there's a litany of reasons why this has gone sour. evaluate what's going on, pull back.

Push and Pull

You'll hear this term often. Pulling is being sweet and talking soft. Pushing is testing hard. It's all a polarization of the masculine and feminine. It's all about showing contrast and making the girl feeling something. Every day people exist in a stasis like state where they feel a little, and move on. If you're polarizing you will imbue a lot of feelings, sometimes in stark contrast. 

If you're always pulling - you're a simp.

If you're always pushing - you're an asshole pushing people away.

You want to exist somewhere in the center.

That's all I have for now. Good luck players
Screening, active selection, passive selection and how that relates to LTR/partner acquisition/Fucking hoes

I'm going to talk about a very important process I've been studying for a really long time. I'm absolutely fascinated by it and that will probably never wane. There is a lot to go over and I'm probably not going to do it justice, I only have about an hour to write today. Some premise

-I don't think men and women are that different, technically speaking. Men and women are closer than a male human and a male chimp, even more similar than a male human and a male lizard. The differences are just extremely pronounced because of our societal structure, - whether nature or nurture - and the mating game that we play. I get a lot of flak for this, but I don't think we're all that different. Of course, the interesting parts are the different parts but I find it useful to always keep in mind so you don't become disillusioned or embittered by the nature of women. Which I myself find easy to do when discussing differences.

-The reason women's selection process and male response is so important is because once you know the norms and you gather some data you can start to manipulate it. It's not a centrally regulated process, it doesn't have 1 main authority (though I guess feminism is an attempt at that), it's a decentralized set of cultural and biological norms. Because it's decentralized and the average doesn't represent an absolute authority and there are large (for lack of a better word) security holes, and that leaves it open to manipulation. 
--For example there is no "secura test™ verified IS THE SHIT" database. If there was, there is no way anyone who wasn't verified as THE SHIT, would get laid. A girl would run your name, and get an instant judgement based on empirical data gathered by some regulatory agency in our made-up-land's space. Ironically, we're inching closer and closer to that by the day, but a true solution has yet to be implemented. Instead, we have 10s if not 100s of other small unregulated systems that determine if a woman will have sex with you or pursue a relationship. And that's good for us,  thank god for being a man every day, it means you don't have to be rich or incredibly handsome to bang models, it helps but it's not required.

So let's start off with some biology so we're all on the same page

Women's selection process, sexual selective pressure, and stuff

It's been deemed by nature that women's purpose in reproduction is to project sexual selective pressure on to the species. Actually think about that for a moment. Women have a very strong urge to make responsible choices when selecting someone to breed with. The main reason for our evolution has been women. The relative elimination of uglyness, genetic propensity for disease, improved immune health - it's women. 

That said, for this mechanism and be successful it had to evolve over a long period of time. Women had to become very good at sniffing out fakers, idiots, generally being undesirable, etc. So, women are imbued with an immense amount of power for just existing. The good news is that this gift is unearned and the system can be gamed, the bad news is it's 1000s of years a natural talent refined and gaming it is difficult.

Women's mating strategy is actually pretty smart and there are a lot of auxiliary stats to back up some of my theories but we're not going to cite them unless someone is really interested. What women do (or did exclusively until recently) is let men work out a dominance hierarchy, because we're good at that we use competence figure it out and we're good at measuring competence (hilariously women are not as good, more on that later). Then basically select from the top of the dominance hierarchy. Brilliant. We do all the work, women get the spoils, a tale as old as time.

Now if we all existed in one centralized dominance hierarchy with verifiable credentials, game would not exist. The good news is there are an insane amount of dominance hierarchies and they aren't static - they change all the time. They change so much, even very orderly people have a difficult time keep track of them. And what's more! Women have a difficult time as well. People will try to pin static values to their interpretation of any given structure to circumvent this - it doesn't work 100%. The best values to pin are, wealth (semi-measurable, women are terrible at it), physical size (measurable), group consensus (difficult to measure, though women are great at it), and a giant matrix of values that we consider "physical attractiveness" which is way too much to get into now but just know that people intuitively understand it and have a difficult time defining technically. But those values and traits do not always equate to being at the top of a dominance hierarchy . Because dominance hierarchies are usually based on competence. And none of those scale 1:1 to competence, so there's a large margin for error. And if you aren't at the top of an important dominance hierarchy, and you want to fuck pretty women, you will come to enjoy that margin very much.


This is my favorite concept, I love it. So intuitively you would think an unknown position in a dominance hierarchy would automatically be bad. It isn't! It's often a huge point of leverage. The reason people - and women - don't automatically shut you down when you appear from an unknown point in a dominance hierarchy is several reasons.

1. It could mean their death or expulsion from their social structure if they are wrong. That's a very strong incentive to investigate further

2. It could mean they don't get a shot at a top quality male. Another very strong incentive to figure it out.

3. If all women found unknown positions in dominance hierarchies an instant no, there would be no geniuses, special people, or anything exemplary at all when it comes to genetic traits. So there's evolutionary advantage to at least initially view them favorably. 

So this is huge. What this means practically is that women find mystery attractive, or at least neutral. That means best case scenario a woman will see mystery a lottery ticket. She may get to escape her position in her own dominance hierarchy and ascend to the strangers. What that means for us we take back a fuckton of power in the sexual selection process. When you come from a point of unknown, and there is automatically interest garnered, you get to control all the variables. You have the option to paint yourself however you'd like, and as long as you relay the right signals you can be successful. And that's part of game.  Let's move on to signals and tests.


Signals are things that you project into the world in hopes that someone picks it up and judges it. This is a passive selection process. Men do it, women do it. Women put their beauty into the world, in hopes of attracting a mate equitable to their value. This is almost all of the initial selection process. Men typically do that in a different way. And that's what we're here to talk about.

You can project/signal your status. Everyone gets this one. Buy a nice car, wear some gold, take pictures of you in a favorable position in a dominance hierarchy. You get the idea. These are difficult to fake, but you can  fake them and recover from the deception if you are smart enough. I don't like faking these signals so I don't know much about it. I like my relationships to be built around other attractors, so if you're into this go figure it out I don't care for it. There's a story here about a guy giving girls fake rolexes as a gift, that's one way to do it.

So the real meat and potatoes of what I wanted to talk about today is projecting emotional signals because I think those are more fun and easier for me and when it comes down to it that's my gold standard for game.

Honesty is a signal for trust
Confidence is signal for competence
Humor is a signal for intelligence
These are NOT honest signals. A seemingly honest man can be deceptive, a confident man can be incompetent and a funny man can be dumb. These can be faked, and they can be faked to great success. There are many more signals and probably a great deal more that evade classification but I think about them often. Maybe one day I'll compile a list.

Emotional problem solving is a signal for emotional intelligence 
- This is an honest signal, there is no way to solve emotional problems without an adequate amount of emotional intelligence. Women find this very very attractive. This entry deserves several pages but I don't have time for it now.

Logical problem solving is a signal for rationality and contemporary intelligence 
-This is an honest signal. It's very difficult to fake. Women find this attractive, but only if it benefits them. I can wax all day long about how I solved a very technical very difficult math problem, makes no vaginas wet. But if we take a logical problem that a woman is having an issue with and she already finds you a little bit attractive, because both of those things are emotionally relevant she will find your solving of the problem attractive and it will amplify her idea of you.

Anyway that's enough on signals for now. I want to write about it more.

Everyone's favorite! I actually do like tests. It's basically a woman saying "hey, you might be the shit. Are you the shit" it means she likes you or she wants to like you. I cannot stress enough how awesome that is for you, unless of course you don't like the bitch in that case it's terrible.

Tests are active selection mechanisms. Women engage you, you engage back, if you get a favorable result you move up in the selection process. We all know this. But i wanted to talk about another facet today.

Men can test women. In fact I encourage it. Oh I encourage the fuck out of it. And here's the draw, it's a huge risk and it's note a safe option but thusly it has an amazing payoff. We are men after all, we shouldn't be risk averse. When you administer an emotional test to a woman it functions in several ways

1. She refuses cooperation and signals that she is bad at submission. Depending on the intensity of the test this may be the end to this interaction. This is common, so this is how you can very actively filter for submission
2. She fails the test and you gain data - that she was willing to submit but she failed the criteria
3. She passes the test and you gain data and submission - perfect

When #3 happens it's great. The position that you gain from #3 happening in a strategical sense is fucking outstanding. She shows competence, she shows submission, and you get whatever outcome you're looking for.

Here's why it can be a bad idea and why it's a risk and why women are better suited for it. 

Say you're a successful player and you have 5 leads for the week. Good for you champ, you test some of the girls at some point and they all either fail or refuse to cooperate and it kills the lead, which realistically is the most likely option. Your pool of leads is done, now you have to go back to lead generation. You could've probably ran "don't fuck it up" game and banged one of them, probably eventually found it she's not worth your time but you would have got it in

Same scenario for a woman. Ahahahaha, what fucking lead pool? It's a lead ocean. 5 leads? Try 500 on a slow day if she was actually working on it. Statistically someone is bound to pass by fucking accident. 

Do you see the difference? High risk high reward move. And if you're min-maxing your chances of success you have to have great timing and good emotional intelligence. If you walk around just testing hoes you're gonna have a bad time. It's an advanced level strategy.

Active selection

This is basically just approaching women and talking to them. Women don't do it because they don't have to and they are risk averse. The rare woman will do this, most likely one high in testosterone or completely enamored by a man out of their league, and I guarantee you that it will only happen a few times in their lifetime. They cannot afford blows to their ego as it may put them out of the dating pool for weeks. Their emotional fragility is a hard ceiling to active selection I just thought this was worth mentioning.

In summery

So the takeaway from all this, or at least the idea i've been developing is this: Women are punished culturally (and internally) for using male selection techniques, men are punished mathematically for using female selection techniques. What that means for the average player (not chump) is that you can use some very very smart female selection techniques if you put in the numbers. It's another reason to avoid scarcity.

That's all for now, good luck players.
Glad I took both trigonometry and psychology back in high school.  I'd surely be a basket case for reading all this if I didn't.
I'm really hoping it's not that esoteric
(05-18-2020, 10:56 PM)Pavlov\s dog Wrote: I'm really hoping it's not that esoteric

It was a good read and there was no esoteric babble about "energy", or anything along those lines.

Would +1 you, but it's already been done. Big Grin
Hail, Brother Pavlov!  Hail, Brother Lothario!

Not esoteric by any means!
^^ Helikron? Ok brah. Sounds good.
Lie detection

In my mind, there's 5 major things that will allow you tell if someone is lying. In order of importance, except for the last one. Keep in mind lie detection is an art and a skill, it requires some creativity to suss out the truth. Sometimes you have to employ little traps, be clever, lead your subject into a thought pattern and see if they'll betray it. Sometimes you have to invent scenarios to guage a feeling. I can go over that later but for now I'm going to keep it short wth 5 major things that will fit most people's purposes. Most people don't work in intelligence or don't live in a way where lies are life and death so I'm not sure how interested they will be.

I have a scale. Lie detection skills 1-10, and lying skill 1-9. The reason why a skill of lying only goes up to 9 and detection goes to 10 is because I truly believe that the truth is more obvious and powerful than a lie. To detect a lie you need to be one point or above the skill of your subject who may be lying

The reason this is so important and it's #1 is because it's the dog whistle of a lie. If someone has motivation to lie to you chances are you should look into it. A cheating wife will say she was in another location. A lying business partner will lie about amounts. It's important to stay vigilant if you value you the truth. If you can think of a motivation, it doesn't hurt to spot check from time to time. How you live your life is up to you and we'll cover that in the last point, but I constantly check people - I don't like being lied to. When you get that little feeling like "hmmm", that's when you should start looking. And you should calibrate yourself by checking on things that people may not even be lying about, don't be an asshole - just verify.

Body Language

Body language never lies. It takes some very specific training to lie with your body language knowingly. If someones feet are pointing t'word the door, they want to leave usually. If someone is playing with their hands they're usually nervous. Look at their feet, look at their eyes, look at their hands - and listen. You'll learn a lot about what's going on quickly. One thing to always pay attention to is someones feet, almost nobody trains their feeet. There's a reason why the first thing people look at is shoes - it's not because shoes are the most important thing. We're evolved to do that, because generally people's feet can tell a lot about them very quickly. From potential fighting stance to feelings. I won't go on about it too much, the good thing is that humans are evolved to read body language and most people are intuitively good at it, and with a little training become great at it.

I don't know how this applies to other languages but english actually is pretty tonal if you listen hard enough. There's two major things you need to pay attention to - inflection and intonation. Usually at the end of a thought or statement and the reason for that is because people very consciously think while speaking but the beginning and the end the veil slips. Also people not experienced with lying generally do a poor job conveying the congruent emotions when they are making up something because it's extra work. That's really it, it's extra work for your brain. It's easy to be honest and use a congruent tone when you really feel it, if you have to manufacture emotions it adds a layer of difficulty and I promise you all but the most experienced liars let it slip eventually, very important. Look out for it, more great news for truth seekers is that people are naturally good at this and better with training. 

Reality and congruence with reality

So you think this would be #1, but it's not. For the simple fact there are not always eyes on people, a lot of people cover up their misdeeds and are careful about this. You get someone on camera for what they're lying about? Shut case right? I tell you 2+2 = 5? Pretty damn easy. The till is off? Easy easy easy. But still you need to remain vigilant with this too, you can miss things if you're not looking.

The 2nd part. Congruence. If someone is beaming with happiness and they say their cat just died. Probably not huh? Girl says she really loves you but is dressing up skimpy and going out with "a friend", interesting check into it. Your lady smells like cologne and sex but says she was with her mom? Alright probably not. You get the idea, congruence. How does what someone says match up with their behaviour, demeanor, words, tone, body language and motivation. If something is off chances are it probably is. 

You can test someone's congruence - there are ways. Offer them money for a minor betrayal it will test if they are as integrous as they say they are. Trust tests, I can't go over them all. If someone says they're an honest person and they steal? Probably not. If they have the ability to rationalize their bad behaviour chances are there's more to come. Be creative, this is why lie detection is an artform and not a science.

Your sanity and your willingness to risk it for the truth

This is by far the most important one, and I always leave it for last for a reason. It's the most difficult. People lie all the time. ALL THE TIME. Your girl lies to you all the time. Your best friend lies to you all the time. Don't believe me? Good, that's probably for the best. If you want to tell with a good level of certainty if someone you love or someone you care about is lying to you - You need to value the truth more than your own sanity. Let that sink in, it's not a joke and it's not me being dramatic. If you go down the path of absolute honesty and truth, you will drive yourself insane. You will lose friends. You will lose lovers. You will become unhappy - at least initially. I myself have dedicated my existence to the truth, I hate being lied to. There's nothing that will make me more upset as quickly. It's not always healthy, people lie all the time and most of them do it for a good reason. Most people lie for reasons of brevity, or sparing someones feelings, or whatever their fucked up motivations are I fucking hate it.

The reason lies are so detestable and I hate them so much is because I'm a dominant person, and I hate someone taking my decisions away from me. When you present someone with a lie you remove their ability to make a choice in the situation and navigate it appropriately. You stole money from me? Great lets deal with it. You fucked my best friend, alright maybe everyone doesn't have to mortally pay. You lie to me about it? Fuck you, you're stealing my ability to navigate this and I hate you


Lies and types of them

Lying by omission - you're omitting facts to paint something in a specific light, this is a lie. I don't give a fuck I'm not arguing about it; this is a lie. If you don't tell me every goddamn detail when prompted you are lying, no ifs no ands and no buts. Fuck you, apologize.

Abstraction - Taking artistic license with facts. Truth is singular. Truth is concrete. There is no wiggle room with facts and truth, they exist exactly as they are and anything else is a lie. Fuck you, apologize

Deferment -  "I was just waiting to tell you", yeah no. You're strategically manipulating the truth and you didn't tell it when prompted because you needed time to strategize or delay emotional fallout. You know what you did; Fuck you, apologize

Diffusion of responsibility  - More of a rationale than a lie. People will blame you or other people. "I thought I couldn't tell you because you know how you get". You should have immediately responded truthfully when prompted. Fuck you, apologize.

Misrepresentation - Most common lie, just saying something is when it isn't. Just here for the purpose of being thorough.

There are more, these are just the ones I find common. I'm sure there's material on it in a law textbook somewhere.


People lie all the time. Women lie often. They have the ability to rationalize their lies and do it easily. And in (somewhat) rare cases they actually believe their lies. So if someone believes their lies and I mean actually believes them truly and sincerely body language and ton get thrown out of the window. I have some ideas about why women are more evolved to do this but it's not relevant for now. What you need to know is that even without tone and body language you can almost certainly tell someone is lying. Though it will be more difficult. Here's the good news, if they truly and honestly believe their lie, they are a cinch to interrogate because they aren't actively trying to deceive you. In my opinion they should still be chastised but hey that's my philosophy. Anyway when someone believes their lie it's not the end of the road for someone who is looking for the truth, it can actually be a good thing for your investigation.

Try not to be angry at women for lying, they can barely help it sometimes.

Women and other people have accused me of taking a "hard-line" stance on lying, and to them I say fuck you. A lie is a lie is a lie, not my fucking problem. 

That's the gist of it, hope you can navigate the world around you with a higher degree of truth, think about #5 and see if it's worth it for you.

Good luck players

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