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Dealing with time wasters - churros - 05-23-2021

I just got back from a date with some late twenties Korean-American, sat in the park, drank two beers, back to my place. When I put my arm around her, she says: "by the way, I'm not sexually attracted to you." I responded: "well, in that case you should leave. Why didn't you tell me earlier?"

I don't really care whether this girl is down or not. But why was it necessary to waste two hours, getting extra beers, etc.? It was like she expected me to say "okay" and continue hanging out. Now my brain is foggy for the rest of the evening and I resent having wasted my Saturday evening with her.

There were some warning signs. For example, she tried to take the lead when choosing the bodega, paths around the park for example. But that is hardly enough to cut her off so early in the date, even though I clocked it.

How do you sniff out time wasters efficiently? And why do girls engage in this behaviour?


RE: Dealing with time wasters - Shifty - 05-23-2021

I'm no game guru but I think girls in that age group are more likely to be that way. I have a high conversion rate but I can recall a few times where the date felt completely pointless and more like I was just an item in her schedule and she was late 20s too.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - Pavlov's dog - 05-23-2021

It happens man. You just have to listen to your gut. It's a pretty delicate line but you can walk it.

One strategy is escalate quickly with a potential dud to get some harder signs she's not down for you. If you put your arm around her earlier or grabbed her hand or went for some sexy talk you could've gauged this earlier.

Another is to very purposely and intently
pay attention to her actions and level of openness to to you. You mentioned she was aggressive about venue choices - while that could easily be a shit test it could just as easily be her not respecting you, or both. But if you competently and assertively suggested your spot and were still met with resistance it's probably time to change course or abandon ship.

The way you wrote your post basically answers your own question, sounds like you knew what was up earlier, just needed to pay attention. What that really means is you let ya dick get the best of you and ignored the signs.

Happens to the best of us Buddy, best to swallow what you already know and move on.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - melodics - 05-23-2021

If I remember correctly you are in the usa,.where girls often will say things like that if they are not "feeling it". In western countries I am intransigeant with girls trying to take the lead. They either do it my way or take the highway. We all have our days when we are not paying enough attention and yeah it happens to everyone what happens to you. But when a girls does that and I am in my "high-T" mood she'll pass a bad moment.i'll take her by the hair and kick her out of.my place. In the usa they are crazy will make false allegations so you must record everything or even better leave the country. Thing is in "normal" countries a girl.would never dare to say something like what she told you because she would.get slapped.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - JsElysianEagle - 05-23-2021

Received wisdom suggests that one should never set up a first date for a Saturday night for this (among other) reason(s). For a first date it's always best to try and meet weekday evenings somewhere low key, or if you absolutely must do it on a weekend night, have a backup plan in case she turns out to be a time waster such as this gal.

But yeah, it's annoying when it happens... and it's happened to even the best players I've known. FWIW I don't think a girl suggesting a bodega means she isn't DTF.

I'm not sure there's any guaranteed way to sniff them out, other than perhaps the obvious signs such as disinterested body language, dry texts etc. I'd instead recommend that you alter your first date strategy, such as scheduling earlier in the evenings so as not to waste your whole night if it doesn't go anywhere.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - dingdongditch - 05-23-2021

Don't meet Asian American women in public.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - AirWaves - 05-23-2021

May have been a twist on the classic "we're not having sex tonight."

What did her non verbals say?


RE: Dealing with time wasters - Red_Pill_Brotherhood - 05-23-2021

All of us run into timewasters. The key is recognizing it early on and kicking them to the curb quickly. Basically you want to look for constant cooperation (she enthusiastically replies, gives you her number easily, sets a date without a bunch of bs, follows your lead, goes with the flow and ultimately gets sexual with you without too much bs, and the good behavior continues). 

Timewaster signs:
-Objections: "Let's talk on here more first" "I don't know you well enough yet" "I don't go out during covid" "Are you a kidnapper haha?" 
-Ignoring date invite but replying to another message you sent. (ie- "Yea love craft beer. Let's get a drink sometime. What are u up to on thurs?" her- "Ah what type of craft beer do you like?") 
-Not agreeing to meet on your logistics/follow your lead throughout the date. 
-Not allowing you to escalate, being very cold to your advances. Sometimes these girls just need a little time but if she won't let you touch her leg a little bit or kiss her, she's wasting your time. 

So basically:
-screen a bit more before the first date
-optional: invite her straight over to your place or have her meet outside your building. This sets a good frame. 
-escalate more during the date to test her interest before inviting her over

And realize sometimes you'll just run into girls who you just won't have chemistry with. On to the next!


RE: Dealing with time wasters - Rang off the Pipe - 05-23-2021

That's a great post. I'd also add girls who flake and offer to reschedule but then flake a second time. It's very tempting to engage time-wasters with the hope that they'll come around but ultimately, they almost never do and continuing to communicate with them only feeds their ego


RE: Dealing with time wasters - Alpone - 05-24-2021

Red Pill and Rang nailed it. Try to look for flake signs early.

I exchanged numbers with a Brazilian girl on the beach a few weeks ago. She texted me first so I thought I was in. After 2 failed attempts to meet up because she was "tired", I stopped trying.

The best dates I've had were easssyyy to meet with. No drama, no excuses, very enthusiastic. I call those the True Believers, and I select for them now and don't spend energy on luke warm girls.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - LeBeau - 05-24-2021

To echo what others have said, this was off somewhere much earlier. Think of doing an exercise in a workout where often the weak link isn't necessarily the part that visibly fails at the end.

I also agree with avoiding Fri. or Sat. night dates, you should have better options, plus it can telegraph the wrong impression. I find Sun. and Thurs. are ideal if you want to set up 2 potential openings a week.

Maybe I missed it, but how did you meet this girl? There can be different screening strategies depending on how you met her and escalated from there to the actual date...


RE: Dealing with time wasters - MrLovaLova - 05-24-2021

Maybe it was just a bit shit test... I'd have said something like: "I'm just hugging you, and you're already talking about sex?? Relax" lol. See her reaction

Sounds like you let that one go at the first hurdle. Should've tried a bit harder I think.

How did you meet this girl? From where?


RE: Dealing with time wasters - wonderboy - 05-24-2021

Well I am probably the wrong guy trying to give you good answers, as this is my main problem with women. I get dates with average looking women but often the dates end with her saying "it was ok, you're a nice good-looking guy but I just didn't feel it". Happens to me in probably 80% of my dates. Still not a super bad rate, I just need enough dates to finally have sex.

So you can imagine, I had lots of dates that took up to 4 hours and in the end I got a "sorry I am not interested in a 2nd date, but it was a very interesting conversation we had". I then started to escalate earlier, sometimes after 30min, sometimes after an hour, but rarely I waited for longer. That lead to new problems like "I was interested in you but you tried to kiss me in 30min, how can a man be really interested in me if he does that" etc. At least, I reduced the amount of 2h+ dates that lead to nothing.

I had many dates and I can tell you, human beings are all very different. That's why it's super difficult to come up with general rules. Still, it's usually better to try to escalate a little bit to find out whether there could be interest on her side. It definitely feels better to end the date yourself after 30min by telling her she doesn't seem to be interested than staying together for multiple hours just to get a "sorry not interested" from her afterwards.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - lika91 - 05-24-2021

@wonderboy

Avoid deep topics by all means. It's tricky because girls try to push you into it, but once you go there, it kills the romantic vibe.

Generally, try to speak as little as possible. Only if a girl says "I know nothing about me and its just me talking all the time" I start to give her a bit more, of course in a chellenging way "ask me a good question and you will get the best answer..."

In the best case, she will never say it as she isn't interested in your personality anyways. But sometimes they need it, its usually a sign that you have a girl of a bit higher quality character-wise, when she shows interest in you as a person. Not so often I can tell.

Don't give facts, give emotions. Tell her you love mountains because it gives you the feeling of protection and you just feel healthy and like yourself when hiking them and rewarding yourself for the view or whatever shite you can come up with.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - battalion - 05-24-2021

"That lead to new problems like "I was interested in you but you tried to kiss me in 30 min, how can a man be really interested in me if he does that" etc."

With lukewarm girls 30 min is a maximum length of a date. They should know already if they are up to anything with you instead of talking boring crap for 2h. Those who tell you that aren't interested in except having a platonic friendship. At least some little physical escalation is necessary within 30 minutes but girls with that mindset would back off anyway.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - churros - 05-24-2021

Thanks for the great replies guys. I have been in the game for years but the pandemic has blunted my killer instinct. I really should have had the hand on the leg within half an hour, but in my mind I rationalised "she's asian so no public affection." Actually this chick was more americanised than apple pie.

Just shows how much you have to relearn stuff and I would encourage even experienced players to post their L's on the forum, you never know what you can learn.

As for whether this was shit test, very unlikely. I explicitly asked her to clarify and she said "I'm not sexually interested in you." Pretty unambiguous, and even if not, she wasn't nearly hot enough to put MORE time into her. It's sad how in the US you're working for 6.5s when in asia you wouldn't look at this bitch twice. Truly the USA is dick paradise.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - Suits - 05-24-2021

(05-23-2021, 03:32 AM)churros Wrote: There were some warning signs. For example, she tried to take the lead when choosing the bodega, paths around the park for example. But that is hardly enough to cut her off so early in the date, even though I clocked it.

How do you sniff out time wasters efficiently? And why do girls engage in this behaviour?

Every single time I've been on a date with a girl who tried to take the lead, she's ended up being a huge waste of my time.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - akms76 - 05-24-2021

(05-24-2021, 02:56 PM)churros Wrote: Thanks for the great replies guys. I have been in the game for years but the pandemic has blunted my killer instinct. I really should have had the hand on the leg within half an hour, but in my mind I rationalised "she's asian so no public affection." Actually this chick was more americanised than apple pie.

Just shows how much you have to relearn stuff and I would encourage even experienced players to post their L's on the forum, you never know what you can learn.

As for whether this was shit test, very unlikely. I explicitly asked her to clarify and she said "I'm not sexually interested in you." Pretty unambiguous, and even if not, she wasn't nearly hot enough to put MORE time into her. It's sad how in the US you're working for 6.5s when in asia you wouldn't look at this bitch twice. Truly the USA is dick paradise.

what do you look like? ethnicity? I only ask because your time waster is/was Asian and she said she wasn't interested in you sexually. They can be quite picky in who they like. They have a type(as most girls do) but they have a particular type, aside from the rest you have to be. I personally have never had an Asian time waster in the USA. Outside yes. You know very quickly if they are down. I'm blonde and blue eyes and it's a cake walk usually with Asians for me. I get the time wasters with white girls, as these types of girls usually are curious what i have to offer but once they see I don't look like Jason Momoa or that guy from 365 DNI(italian/middle eastern look) in person, they dry up fast(not all but most). 

And yes, the dick paradise is most definitely in the USA for girls. You can add personal wealth for these girls to that list, like no other country on the planet.

Cheers,


RE: Dealing with time wasters - melodics - 05-24-2021

(05-23-2021, 04:01 AM)Pavlov\s dog Wrote: You just have to listen to your gut. It's a pretty delicate line but you can walk it.

Yeah it's that simple. If a girl triggers my gut alert I impose a meeting near my place and will go straight for the bang. If she does something like "Let's have dinner" I will be even more stricter, I'll ask her to meet me at my place to have drinks.


RE: Dealing with time wasters - Doug - 05-24-2021

(05-24-2021, 11:27 AM)lika91 Wrote: @wonderboy

Avoid deep topics by all means. It's tricky because girls try to push you into it, but once you go there, it kills the romantic vibe.

Generally, try to speak as little as possible. Only if a girl says "I know nothing about me and its just me talking all the time" I start to give her a bit more, of course in a chellenging way "ask me a good question and you will get the best answer..."

In the best case, she will never say it as she isn't interested in your personality anyways. But sometimes they need it, its usually a sign that you have a girl of a bit higher quality character-wise, when she shows interest in you as a person. Not so often I can tell.

Don't give facts, give emotions. Tell her you love mountains because it gives you the feeling of protection and you just feel healthy and like yourself when hiking them and rewarding yourself for the view or whatever shite you can come up with.

Excellent advice.

If somehow the topic gets moved to something related to politics, or another "deep" topic, move off of it as quickly as possible. 

I often gear the conversation to the feelings or energy of whatever topic, in the way that lika suggests above. You don't want to come off as some mystical energy weirdo either. 

_____________________

Also to the poster who said his dates get turned off about trying to kiss them within 30 minutes on a date. That's not a good tactic either. You need to be building up comfort through touching before you just lunge in for a kiss, or it's going to be awkward as hell.  

Most of the time on a date, I won't kiss them in the venue. Probably 80% of the time, unless the venue is dark, music blasting, it has the environment where it's not out of place and there is a lot of sexual tension already building.

I think not kissing them at the date venue or being too aggressive helps get them back to your apartment. You want the girl to be attracted to you, but also comfortable. If she isn't into at the moment for whatever reason, she doesn't want to deal with the guy being overly aggressive about it.

Much of it is just reading the situation at that point. You get better at reading it the more practice that you have. There are still times where I think it's going better than it is, or where I don't think anything will happen and it does, but most of the time you can figure it out.

So many times I've had girls say ok, let's go to your apartment but we're not having sex, or I'll stay over but we're not having sex, and it ends up happening anyway without much effort. I've even had it happen where I bought into their protests so much and I was tired that I thought to myself, whatever I'm not making a move. Then 5 minutes later they were the ones who started grabbing me in bed.

I know this goes against the whole escalation and shutting them out if they don't comply theory. Maybe it works for some, but it's not my style. If and when I do find the need to escalate I do it in a playful way.