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Making Money - Location independent
#46
Another trader here. Some solid advice on this thread (Traveltothemax, Sourstarfish), not gonna repeat too much methodology, but would back up most of what they said, and add some info.

Reality is, your chance of becoming a successful trader is pretty damn low (guessing over 90% of those who try will give up or go bust). I'm sure most confident guys will assume they are in the 10% (or maybe less) who will be successful trading, but trading success and personal confidence levels may be inversely related.

Now, if you are one of the few guys who can figure it all out, you'll have a really great life. Probably won't get rich as a solo day trader (though some may), you can easily be very comfortable, pulling the same income as professionals in various degreed fields, though you'll have a LOT more free time / less stress. I think the biggest perks: No one telling you what to do, No customers to please, Nothing to sell, No content to constantly create for your viewers. In essence, you won't need to depend on anyone else, in any capacity, for your living. It's a nice feeling. The only stressful things may be finding a reliable internet connection (if you're somewhere exotic.) and the trading hours can be pretty boring sometimes (you better like your own company) but fortunately they aren't long. That said, if you don't have/desire a very active life outside of trading hours, you'll become a hermit.

Now for some figures: if you know what you're doing and can do it CONSISTENTLY.. the following scenarios are very possible.

Day Trading US stock market
Time investment: 2-3 hours per day
Capital requirement: $25,000 minimum (recommended you start with 30K to have a buffer).

Day trading returns
Average - 5-10% average monthly return
Good - 15-20% average monthly return
Top Dog - 30-40% average monthly return

So if you're good (17.5% avg monthly return), and your stake is $30K, you can pull on average $5200 per month gross income ($63K USD per year). That will get you by pretty comfortably in most places, but not major US cities. Unless maybe you live on a budget and don't like to go out much.

Increase your trading stake to $50K and now you're pulling $8,700 per month, or $105K per year, all on just about 15 hours a week and from anywhere in the world with a fast internet connection. Note: this is not scalable, once your stake gets up to 80K or 100K, slippage and lack of market liquidity will start to eat up your monthly profits. I think depending on your strategy, you'll be ok up to an $80K stake, pulling $14K per month or $170K per year if you're good.

-------------------------

Swing trading US stock market

This is a bit harder to estimate as you're often holding positions for anywhere from a couple days to a several months (depending on the time frame you prefer to trade) while all day trades are closed out each day and profit/loss banked.

Time investment: 1 hour per day in US stock market
Capital requirement: No minimum (but recommended you start with at least 10K to have or else transaction costs will eat all of your profits).

Average - 3-5% average monthly return
Good - 7-10% average monthly return
Top Dog - 15-20% average monthly return

So if you're good (8% avg monthly return), and your stake is $10K, you can pull on average $800 per month gross income ($9600 USD per year).

Increase your trading stake to $50K and now you're pulling $4000 per month, or $48K per year, all on just about 5-8 hours a week and from anywhere in the world with internet access (speed doesn't matter). Note: swing trading is actually pretty scalable, increase your stake to $150K, and you're now pulling $12K or $144k per year, all on just 5-7 hours in a week. Not bad.

You can do both swing and day trading at the same time if you desire.. expect that to take about 25 hours per week.

I know some of you will doubt these figures. Not looking to convince anyone. Again, All of these figures are just for the 10% (or less) of guys who can figure out how to trade in the first place.

For me.. I'm good, but not a top dog. Anyways, hope this helps some guys who have the desire and patience to pursue a life of trading.
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#47
(04-22-2017, 03:46 AM)20Nation Wrote: So I started a code camp. I'm a bit in debt so planning to finish the code camp, create an awesome app, then try to get a job in Silicon Valley. The end game here is to be able to get sweet free lance projects in the future with connections I make. So i can make great money while being anywhere in the world. I'm learning html, javascript and jquery so far. Any advice from coders or guys who know this industry is welcome.

Over here money is definitely in Javascript (especially node.js and angular.js) and more specific PHP coding, especially Magento 2. I still have to learn it. (It was released not too long ago and differs quite a lot from 1.9 which I'm used to work with).
I suggest learning some relational database coding as well. MySQL is always a good choice, but note there is an increasing demand in NoSQL based databases such as MongoDB.
There are programming languages that might pay better, but they are either much more complicated, or much less used thus might result in a harder time finding freelance projects. An exception might be C# / ASP.net .
The Silicon Valley approach is definitely a good choice if you ask me.
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#48
(04-22-2017, 03:46 AM)20Nation Wrote: So I started a code camp. I'm a bit in debt so planning to finish the code camp, create an awesome app, then try to get a job in Silicon Valley. The end game here is to be able to get sweet free lance projects in the future with connections I make. So i can make great money while being anywhere in the world. I'm learning html, javascript and jquery so far. Any advice from coders or guys who know this industry is welcome.


20 I've noticed the industry has grown saturated and the outsource market is your biggest enemy (a website in the States is average $500-1000 but you get a guy just as qualified from India to do it for $150-200)

With your type of lifestyle, you could fund your team on third world prices and sell in USA or in high growth jurisdiction  (Brazil, Indonesia, India the asian markets) and  their rapid adaptation of technology to cash out
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#49
(04-23-2017, 05:23 AM)Christoff Wrote:
(04-22-2017, 03:46 AM)20Nation Wrote: So I started a code camp. I'm a bit in debt so planning to finish the code camp, create an awesome app, then try to get a job in Silicon Valley. The end game here is to be able to get sweet free lance projects in the future with connections I make. So i can make great money while being anywhere in the world. I'm learning html, javascript and jquery so far. Any advice from coders or guys who know this industry is welcome.


20 I've noticed the industry has grown saturated and the outsource market is your biggest enemy (a website in the States is average $500-1000 but you get a guy just as qualified from India to do it for $150-200)

With your type of lifestyle, you could fund your team on third world prices and sell in USA or in high growth jurisdiction  (Brazil, Indonesia, India the asian markets) and  their rapid adaptation of technology to cash out

Funny you mention this. I wrote a business plan very recently more or less using this principle. 
Key thing is, you can make much more money when you have feet on the ground in the target market. The best paying projects usually take lots of time and effort in sales and account management. If you have someone doing exactly that for you, as they would in a fully domestically based company, you can save a lot of money in development costs and thus earn more. Plus be more attractive by shortening lead times, since most agencies cope with shortage in developers. 

Especially when the lead developer speaks the native language of your customers and has skype calls regularly with them. (Admitting this point is not that much of importance in English speaking countries). 
Freelancers are usually hired by development agencies that have their sales people on the ground and take in big projects, but lack development resources. They are still  being able to make profit while paying freelancers $40-$100 an hour. Most of that can go right in your pocket if you do this right.

It is no surprise the fist investor I sent the plan to is really interested. Let's hope it'll get through. I know this will again keep me from traveling a lot, but at least I'll be residing in a pp.
I can even set up my own salary half of what a lead developer would cost in my home country, and still live like a king.
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#50
Geo arbitrage is the best way to become rich with this type of lifestyle. That's how Mark Rich got rich, simultaneously selling things that are cheap in one country to another in high demand that are pretty sold.

Also this is one that I have done to great success. I started doing tutoring for veterans in US through a company that it's funded through the goverment because of their services and veteran benefits. 

 It was a pretty sweet deal considering that I was tutoring them getting paid $25-30 an hour mmultiple times a week tthrough a laptop in Skype. After putting together a website and beginning my own ads, I had work for dayzz and I was on a laptop. I got to travel within US to different states while I did this. 

I no longer do it because it's more of a service rather than a business but man it was a home run and if I did that living on third world prices (like a pussy paradise llike Colombia or Phillipines,  money would go longer
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#51
(04-22-2017, 03:20 PM)usmaniac Wrote:
(04-22-2017, 03:46 AM)20Nation Wrote: So I started a code camp. I'm a bit in debt so planning to finish the code camp, create an awesome app, then try to get a job in Silicon Valley. The end game here is to be able to get sweet free lance projects in the future with connections I make. So i can make great money while being anywhere in the world. I'm learning html, javascript and jquery so far. Any advice from coders or guys who know this industry is welcome.

Over here money is definitely in Javascript (especially node.js and angular.js) and more specific PHP coding, especially Magento 2. I still have to learn it. (It was released not too long ago and differs quite a lot from 1.9 which I'm used to work with).
I suggest learning some relational database coding as well. MySQL is always a good choice, but note there is an increasing demand in NoSQL based databases such as MongoDB.
There are programming languages that might pay better, but they are either much more complicated, or much less used thus might result in a harder time finding freelance projects. An exception might be C# / ASP.net .
The Silicon Valley approach is definitely a good choice if you ask me.
 Yeah my current course has me going from javascript, to learning react, then the backend stuff like what you are talking about (node.js and angular.js are backend right?). 
I was actually thinking what I woulld enjoy the most is app development. I was thinking maybe learning Swift after that, being in apples home city. Is that a good idea?

(04-23-2017, 05:23 AM)Christoff Wrote:
(04-22-2017, 03:46 AM)20Nation Wrote: So I started a code camp. I'm a bit in debt so planning to finish the code camp, create an awesome app, then try to get a job in Silicon Valley. The end game here is to be able to get sweet free lance projects in the future with connections I make. So i can make great money while being anywhere in the world. I'm learning html, javascript and jquery so far. Any advice from coders or guys who know this industry is welcome.


20 I've noticed the industry has grown saturated and the outsource market is your biggest enemy (a website in the States is average $500-1000 but you get a guy just as qualified from India to do it for $150-200)

With your type of lifestyle, you could fund your team on third world prices and sell in USA or in high growth jurisdiction  (Brazil, Indonesia, India the asian markets) and  their rapid adaptation of technology to cash out

Yeah it's true but Donald Trump is in the process of making it harder to bring over people from other countries. I'm hoping to make connections in Silicon Valley so in the future while I'm traveling I can get some freelance work at great prices for the same people I worked for while I was there. 

Yeah I have also thought about this. I met a guy in Ukraine who is basically doing that with game design.
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#52
(04-24-2017, 04:24 AM)20Nation Wrote:  Yeah my current course has me going from javascript, to learning react, then the backend stuff like what you are talking about (node.js and angular.js are backend right?). 
I was actually thinking what I woulld enjoy the most is app development. I was thinking maybe learning Swift after that, being in apples home city. Is that a good idea?

React is a newer front end framework made by facebook if I'm correct. It serves more or less the same purpose as Angular. It's not a bad choice if you ask me, React has lot of potential.
Node is indeed backend, server side scripting.
I can't help you with Swift, but i think developing for apple is always a good choice. Certainly in the US because of the large market share that iPhone has there. However, I do think that most of the apps don't need native coding and can be coded in a hybrid language, which will increase the market. But i could be wrong, if there is great demand for Swift coders, go for it!
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#53
Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe, according to Einstein

Imagine if the average $479 car payment was invested, and the buyer instead bought a $2,000 or $3,000 beater car (with cash!) to drive around while the money is being invested. That low, low monthly payment is actually costing the buyer a big, big fortune. This is how it grows in a mutual fund with an average 12% return, such as the excellent FBIOX fund.
  • In one year, the buyer would have nearly $7,000 with the mutual fund

  • In one year, the buyer would have $5,748 if stashed in a checking account

  • In 3 years, the buyer would instead have $22,400 cash with a mutual fund

  • In 3 years, the buyer would have  $17,244 if stashed in a checking account

  • In 5 years, the buyer would instead have $41,700 with a mutual fund

  • In 5 years, the buyer would have $28,700 if stashed in a checking account

  • After 7 years, the buyer would instead have $66,000 with a mutual fund or $40,000 with a checking account
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#54
For the day traders in this thread, where would you start if you were brand new to it? Recommended reading material, guides, simulators, classes? I see a lot of fluff on the internet so it seems hard to believe what anyone has to say - especially when they want 1000's of dollars to give it, but I'd be willing to put in the time and effort if I knew of legitimate resources to get started down the path.

For me, I do offshore construction and surveying. I work 6 weeks on / 6 weeks off and travel all over the world for the work I do. It is ideal in a lot of ways to be able to live a great work/life balance and travel a lot. It has treated me well. I've been to just under 50 countries, have a lot of great experience, and have put a lot into investments/savings over my time doing it; but it is also pretty damn stressful at times. And the industry as a whole has been hurting for awhile. I long for something that would let me be my own boss and make my own hours, even if I made significantly less - I can live very happily on 2000 a month or so.
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#55
(04-29-2017, 03:38 PM)beardontcare Wrote: For the day traders in this thread, where would you start if you were brand new to it? Recommended reading material, guides, simulators, classes? I see a lot of fluff on the internet so it seems hard to believe what anyone has to say - especially when they want 1000's of dollars to give it, but I'd be willing to put in the time and effort if I knew of legitimate resources to get started down the path.

Don't want to get too in depth here, as this is a general money making thread and not a trading detail thread, so just a few thoughts...

I back Traveltothemax's advice, get a demo account with a brokerage and do simulated trades. Find one that you can trade historical charts in real time. Any platform that allows you to access historical charts of the asset's price movement in real time will work. Thinkorswim is a popular option for stocks. 

The internet is littered with many day trading strategies/systems that legitimately work. Suggest you experiment with several of them in a demo account. Not all at once, pick just 1-2 strategies and give your best effort for 1-2 months. I don't think any one strategy is better than all or even most of the rest, it just depends on how well you can make it work. Try to find a strategy that you enjoy, and can implement consistently. If you hate the strategy or get bored by it, it's only a matter of time before you lose more money than you make, and/or give up. 

While making virtual profits in a demo account is no guarantee you'll be successful when you start live... It's probably accurate to say that if you can't at least pull some money out of a demo on a consistent monthly basis, you're gonna have a tough time getting things rolling live. 

Also, consider if day trading is really what you want to do, as opposed to swing trading. 

An analogy related to game - Just as some players have a preference for day game vs club/bar game vs online dating sites, some traders will do better with day trading (more profit, but possibly higher stress), and some will thrive with swing trading (less profit, less stress) or long term technical investing. Different personality types are better suited to different methods. A few guys can/will crush all of the above. Figure out which trading style is the best fit for your personality. If you really enjoy the method, you will likely improve at it. 

Feel free to PM me if you have a specific trading question. I'm not a guru or top dog, but can probably offer you a few insights based on my experience trading stocks.
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#56
I don;t know if this is the right place to ask and if it's allowed  by 20 & THC, but let me try.

I'm looking for a successful internet marketeer. One that knows his ways around and is pulling decent monthly income from it.
Preferable one that's pulling facebook traffic. I've discovered a way (at least, I haven't seen being applied elsewhere) to improve audience targeting significantly in facebook ads, create email lists and add very effective remarketing.
Now, I could set this up myself alone but I'd still need to get my hands around finding the right offers, setting up landing pages and spend a ton of money in advertising before I'd even be able to get results. It's been a quite some time since i did im.
This method can easily be integrated in running campaigns without concessions.
I'd like to find someone that wants to try this and work together with me. I could ask around on BHW or something but I don't trust these guys.
It doesn't matter what offers you promote, clickbank, cj, whatever. As long as you have your own websites set up (not directly linking to affiliate offers)
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#57
(04-22-2017, 03:46 AM)20Nation Wrote: So I started a code camp. I'm a bit in debt so planning to finish the code camp, create an awesome app, then try to get a job in Silicon Valley. The end game here is to be able to get sweet free lance projects in the future with connections I make. So i can make great money while being anywhere in the world. I'm learning html, javascript and jquery so far. Any advice from coders or guys who know this industry is welcome.

I'm just seeing this but can hopefully ad some value. While not anywhere close to being a scam, a lot of coding bootcamps fall short on their promises of high paying employment. In addition, some churn out large numbers of students who all have the same portfolio of fairly basic projects. On the plus side at the end of the camp you should have working code on github or bit bucket and that does put you ahead in the game. On the minus side, those projects are probably no more complex than what you could have done on your own. If possibly you should find out if there is any alumni network for the code camp you're using and try reaching out to people, especially if the camp does not have job placement. 

In regards to where to work personally I'd forget about the Valley. Cost of living is crazy high and salaries aren't that great at all companies. With limited experience you'd probably have better luck getting on in a smaller or up and coming tech hub like Austin, Raleigh/Durham, Nashville...Competition for jobs will likely be easier, cost of living will be lower and they will probably be more friendly to you as an entry level developer. 

If after the camp you end up stuck or having trouble finding a job then I'd recommend you do the following:
  1. Identify a US cit you don't mind living in for 6-12 months
  2. Put together a resume 
  3. Make sure you have a working project or 2 on heroku i9 or wherever
  4. Reach out to recruiters in those areas and ask if they can chat with you on skype 
  5. Express an interest in getting started and tell them about how you're planning to move to their city to start you tech career
A good recruiter will sell you and often has the connections to get employers to overlook your greenness. Contracting will also help you quickly get some experience. If that doesn't work then tech support is the path I've seen a lot of guys take into everything from qa to security. It gets your foot in the door and you generally get to know the company's products pretty well.

There are a few remote only companies out there but if you target them I'd take a good look at the available jobs and see where you fit and try to move up later. For example, with no coding experience buffer may not hire you as a developer but may take you on to to customer service.

If you want to be freelance as opposed to remote for a particular company then my best advice is to learn something pretty niche. Several years ago I met an older guy who works 4 months per year (or more if he wants) and made 6 figures doing mainframe work as a freelancer. Yes, mainframes, the thing most CS students would laugh at if someone told them to make a career out of. Thing is companies aren't ditching the mainfrrame anytime soon and it's not really taught these days. Some SAP consultants make a lot of bank as well and it's doesn't take a huge background. I met a lady billing 200/hr on 6 month engagements and she told me that she took udemy courses and then fluffed her resume. At the time she was working through a third party so that made it easier because she was able to leverage their connections. If you want to stick with the web then JQuery gives a good foundation but learn a web framework like angular2 or typescript (on the plus side learning angualr 2 will let you use ionic). I started a new job a llittle over a year ago and out of the 6 companies I interviewed with only one used Jquery the rest were angular or some internal framework and exploring options.

Sorry if any of this has been a bit of on the negative side and feel free to reach out if you have any questions. On the plus side, good money is pretty relative if you move to a place with low cost of living and fast internet, it can just take a while to build the skill set or connections to the point where you have enough ongoing work.
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#58
I am planning for one year swoop vacation by the next year, so i started something called silent partner with investors.

we are soon launching mobile application concern in providing the medical care. 30% share with great revenue
with other project in four different countries
-----
as i can see right is thinking out the box where to make the people work for your small % in any project by the end little by little will come more. the very biggest leading companies now a day are technology companies so the only investments for the coming 7 years is something related to mobile.
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#59
Have you thought about stock photography? 

I'm not expert on the topic but I've been model for some photographers in Bangkok that make hell of a lot money doing only stock photography. They'll have concept days they shoot different concepts with 4-5 models. Casual business, formal business, airport concept, travel concept etc etc. There is a group on Facebook called "shutterstock thailand contributors". Check it out.

One photographer that I've been pretty good friend with makes around 1000$ per month doing this. His been doing it for one year. Currently he upload to 4 different stock sites. Shutterstock, Adobe Stock, Istock and 123rf. 

Of course, this is not done over the night, and you need to do persistent work over long time. You also need to invest in camera equipement and that is not cheap either.
My Thailand travel blog -> Goodbye Boring Life
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#60
(06-04-2017, 01:51 PM)DNiceNSmooth Wrote:
(04-22-2017, 03:46 AM)20Nation Wrote: So I started a code camp. I'm a bit in debt so planning to finish the code camp, create an awesome app, then try to get a job in Silicon Valley. The end game here is to be able to get sweet free lance projects in the future with connections I make. So i can make great money while being anywhere in the world. I'm learning html, javascript and jquery so far. Any advice from coders or guys who know this industry is welcome.

I'm just seeing this but can hopefully ad some value. While not anywhere close to being a scam, a lot of coding bootcamps fall short on their promises of high paying employment. In addition, some churn out large numbers of students who all have the same portfolio of fairly basic projects. On the plus side at the end of the camp you should have working code on github or bit bucket and that does put you ahead in the game. On the minus side, those projects are probably no more complex than what you could have done on your own. If possibly you should find out if there is any alumni network for the code camp you're using and try reaching out to people, especially if the camp does not have job placement. 

In regards to where to work personally I'd forget about the Valley. Cost of living is crazy high and salaries aren't that great at all companies. With limited experience you'd probably have better luck getting on in a smaller or up and coming tech hub like Austin, Raleigh/Durham, Nashville...Competition for jobs will likely be easier, cost of living will be lower and they will probably be more friendly to you as an entry level developer. 

If after the camp you end up stuck or having trouble finding a job then I'd recommend you do the following:
  1. Identify a US cit you don't mind living in for 6-12 months
  2. Put together a resume 
  3. Make sure you have a working project or 2 on heroku i9 or wherever
  4. Reach out to recruiters in those areas and ask if they can chat with you on skype 
  5. Express an interest in getting started and tell them about how you're planning to move to their city to start you tech career
A good recruiter will sell you and often has the connections to get employers to overlook your greenness. Contracting will also help you quickly get some experience. If that doesn't work then tech support is the path I've seen a lot of guys take into everything from qa to security. It gets your foot in the door and you generally get to know the company's products pretty well.

There are a few remote only companies out there but if you target them I'd take a good look at the available jobs and see where you fit and try to move up later. For example, with no coding experience buffer may not hire you as a developer but may take you on to to customer service.

If you want to be freelance as opposed to remote for a particular company then my best advice is to learn something pretty niche. Several years ago I met an older guy who works 4 months per year (or more if he wants) and made 6 figures doing mainframe work as a freelancer. Yes, mainframes, the thing most CS students would laugh at if someone told them to make a career out of. Thing is companies aren't ditching the mainfrrame anytime soon and it's not really taught these days. Some SAP consultants make a lot of bank as well and it's doesn't take a huge background. I met a lady billing 200/hr on 6 month engagements and she told me that she took udemy courses and then fluffed her resume. At the time she was working through a third party so that made it easier because she was able to leverage their connections. If you want to stick with the web then JQuery gives a good foundation but learn a web framework like angular2 or typescript (on the plus side learning angualr 2 will let you use ionic). I started a new job a llittle over a year ago and out of the 6 companies I interviewed with only one used Jquery the rest were angular or some internal framework and exploring options.

Sorry if any of this has been a bit of on the negative side and feel free to reach out if you have any questions. On the plus side, good money is pretty relative if you move to a place with low cost of living and fast internet, it can just take a while to build the skill set or connections to the point where you have enough ongoing work.

I really appreciate the advice. It doesn't come off as negative, only realistic. I may have a place to stay in Silicon valley, but if that falls trough, I'll think about going to a different city. Chicago has always seemed interesting to me. How is their tech comunity? I basically know javascript pretty well now and i'm getting ok with React. Working on my first project now. 

By the way giving you a +1 reputation for the solid advice.
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